PDMG 777 + Leap Motion + Oculus

[Pigeon 1]

Hello

 

Has anyone taken the plunge with the hardware in this setup and seen the results when used with the PDMG 777?

I've seen a video on you tube of it working and it's impressive but the jet is just a default 747

I have also seen someone here with this setup on the PDMG 737 with an issue around the speed brake but doesn't really mention much about the rest of the jet... MCP, FMC, overhead for example

 

I know PDMG 777 was never made with VR in mind, but still... the direction of leap motion + Oculus is certainly cheaper than building 1/2 a cockpit

 

any reviews out there team?

[BaldyB 20]

Hello

 

Has anyone taken the plunge with the hardware in this setup and seen the results when used with the PDMG 777?

I've seen a video on you tube of it working and it's impressive but the jet is just a default 747

I have also seen someone here with this setup on the PDMG 737 with an issue around the speed brake but doesn't really mention much about the rest of the jet... MCP, FMC, overhead for example

 

I know PDMG 777 was never made with VR in mind, but still... the direction of leap motion + Oculus is certainly cheaper than building 1/2 a cockpit

 

any reviews out there team?

I own most of PMDG's stuff and it is as real as it gets. Particularly with the NGX and 777.

After a very brief look at the Oculus VR Rift set up to run FSX I was blown out of my damn chair. I purchased the headset within 5 minutes, money became no object whatsoever! I came to realize that a proper implementation of VR with PMDG's aircraft will get even more real than it gets, whats that, you say? I also got the Fly Inside app Pro., comes with Leap Motion. Now you can push and twist knobs etc. One problem I am told is that some textures and controls in the 777 are not 3D? With all the talent walking/working around in the PMDG development team I am sure that could be corrected. I would think now would be a good time to include VR capability in the Queen v.3? Like to hear from Kyle on this subject. He say's it like it is!

Later today I have UPS bringing me a PCIe 4 port USB 3.0 card. That's the only problem I have using Oculus compatibility app. Running AMD FX 8350 @ 4.4Ghz with a new XFX overclocked RX-480, turned out to be a very good card, the drivers can only get better.

Those of you running FSX only, do your self a favor and ditch FSX gold, clean your registry of all traces of it. If you don't know how, reformat/reinstall, the difference in VAS and performance is very noticeable, at least it was for me. Handles the 777 with 30 FPS at KJFK +- a few FPS, very fluid, and at least to me, that's what counts! If you do a clean Steam install you will not see FSX-SE folders, only FSX named folders etc. Before you download Steams Edition you cand find a menu choice to install in your root of you HD. I use a Sandisk Extreme Pro 490 Gb SSD, loads stuff way,way, faster!

Yeah, I know the big I CPU's are faster. I also remember a big I rep telling us if we wanted CPU's at a decent rate it would be a good idea to take the AMD Athlon signs out of our windows and door. Ticked me off to no end!!! We were building machines with the Athlon's, needed buckets of em no enthusiast big I CPU's were needed or wanted except for office machines which meant the cheaper the better for those customers.

Not looking to start any arguments, but those memory's still linger.

Will let you know how it goes later

Good luck

BaldyB

Denis Bolduc

[TuFun 426]

Running an AMD system myself with FSX-SE, although a bit old now. Awaiting the AMD Ryzen processor and Vega cards reviews later on next year to make a decision.  

[77west 139]

In IT myself, we have never looked at AMD since the Pentium 4 days - HOWEVER they may be on to something with Ryzen. Our biggest issues have always been QA, reliability, after sales support and they still have a little way to go on that front, at least here in NZ. Intel have always been rock solid in terms of performance and reliability. I am quite interested in Ryzen though, as it seems they have learned from their last 10 years and this may well be a very good CPU. In terms of VR and Oculus, I tried it a few months ago but they need to go 4K on the rift before it will seem real enough. Seemed to grainy and low-res compared to a monitor.

[BaldyB 20]

Running an AMD system myself with FSX-SE, although a bit old now. Awaiting the AMD Ryzen processor and Vega cards reviews later on next year to make a decision.  

Me too!

The RX-480 was pretty good in the short time I was in VR. A very slight shimmer but I could read the number OK.

Best.

BaldyB

[Flamin_Squirrel 71]

The Rift is a great bit of kit, but I stick with my monitor for the 777. The resolution just isn't good enough for reading text, including on the PFD/ND. 

 

My opinion of course, other's may vary.

[rdtv91 73]

The Rift is a great bit of kit, but I stick with my monitor for the 777. The resolution just isn't good enough for reading text, including on the PFD/ND. 

 

My opinion of course, other's may vary.

 

 

 agreed - I actually purchased the rift & Flyinside few weeks back and as my primary flying is that of airliners (777, NGX etc) yes it was immersive and possibly the most immersed I've ever been on a home sim, BUT the minute you want to fly a proper sector it's difficult to read displays and it just feels a bit out of focus due to the lower resolution... I wore it for an entire 1hour sector from gate to gate and had panels and windows up with flyinside including using the zoom function but unfortunately the resolution isn't there *yet* - maybe next generation of VR may take us to that level?

 

However, use oculus in DCS and you've got a killer combo, the HUD's are quite readable and it's pretty immense. I've returned my rift though as my primary flying is airliner so don't see the full value in it... again as aforementioned, as soon as they up the resolution I'll be jumping on it!

[BaldyB 20]

I installed the Rift and Flyinside. The first time was pretty amazing and I could read some gauges ok others needed some adjustment. Also I had a little problem reading the menus to get into settings etc.  I was sitting way above and behind the pilots seat. 

I found that placement of the sensors for tracking was VERY important! At first, having no good spot in front of me ( Monitor in the way) I put it over the monitor about 3' higher than my head and 4' back.  What to do? I decided to try it next to the monitor about 2.5' back and about a 30-40 degree angle and level more or less with my squash. Lo & behold I found myself sitting in the pilots seat and the opening screens options came into focus as good as my monitors desktop. You are advised to use a key to revert too, sort of like an enter key. You are also advised to center your view on entry by looking at the center of the HMD display and clicking the revert key. You can import you desktop into the setup and you can have your mouse. I have been busy as a one armed paper hanger building cabinets so we can occupy our kitchen before Xmas. So this setup will take a bit of time.

Both Oculus AND Flyinside are Beta programs, something to keep in mind. Having said that, one can trace the rapid progress being made. It's easy to be knock something in an unfair manner in it's present state. Perfectly OK to point out problems, the developers want to hear it!

My issues.

1: Don't know what I'm doing here, More study needed!

2: I find taking off with my head sticking out of the top of the cockpit somewhat disconcerting, also somewhat amazing!

3: Need to position myself in the proper position and be able to not move around when changing views from window to window.

4: Hard to find the mouse but when you do it's BIG, think I got that cured.

Their are so many ways to configure and optimize Flyinside it's insane but great! How else can you set something up to be correct on so many different platforms?

The Good.

Anyone with a CPU like my AMD FX-8350 and AMD RX-480 video card or better, will have NO problems running this VR setup.

My daughter is NOT a simmer! She is curious so I put the headset on so she could have a look. She said "Dad I'm in an airplane, I feel in it WOW all those buttons and stuff, holy cow, this is amazing", she went on and on and told everyone how real it felt.

Why the PMDG 777? If I cannot use it to fly my PMDG 777 it's no good! However, not to beat a dead horse but it's still Beta. How long have we been waiting for the Queen?

I implore PMDG to do what is possible to really make it as real as it gets, The tech is coming, the day will come when you may not even need an HMD. I honestly think VR is the future of flight the flight sim community.

I think another sensor positioned properly will cure any tracking problems. When I had it high, and wrong for the cockpit i could turn around way beyond 90 degrees,

Good luck to all and a HAPPY Xmas!

Denis Bolduc

 

BaldyB

[tutmeister 695]

Try putting the sensor next to your monitor and aim it slightly up. It doesn't matter that it isn't in the centre. Re run the oculus set up. Once done you shouldn't need to be constantly moving it and you will pretty much always be in the right place. The headset has ir leds all the way around it so you can face away and look up and down without restriction nunlike track ir. The only reason you are having tracking issues is because you as outside the tracking cone of the camera. Grab this and you will be able to see exactly where the camera bounds are.

https://www.wearvr.com/apps/desk-scene-check-your-camera-bounds

 

Chris

[BaldyB 20]

Try putting the sensor next to your monitor and aim it slightly up. It doesn't matter that it isn't in the centre. Re run the oculus set up. Once done you shouldn't need to be constantly moving it and you will pretty much always be in the right place. The headset has ir leds all the way around it so you can face away and look up and down without restriction nunlike track ir. The only reason you are having tracking issues is because you as outside the tracking cone of the camera. Grab this and you will be able to see exactly where the camera bounds are.

https://www.wearvr.com/apps/desk-scene-check-your-camera-bounds

 

Chris

Thanks chris.

 

I did order another sensor this morning. I did place the one I have next to my monitor and it did work much better. One issue I am having is my position changing along with changing views in VR. Also the mouse locating, size problem. have not had much time to work on it. My 4 year old great grandson does not like the Alien in Oculus  demo. Ripped the HMD off pronto, rather look thru monitor.

Best

BaldyB

 

 

I wore it for an entire 1hour sector from gate to gate and had panels and windows up with flyinside including using the zoom function but unfortunately the resolution isn't there *yet* - maybe next generation of VR may take us to that level?

 

As I stated, my new RX-480 is very good. After resetting the sensor in a more reasonable position I could read the settings and all that as clear as my BenQ high res monitor. I was surprised too! The zoom I got working and I can zero in on the gauges ok. Now when I cure the mouse issue I believe I may be able to fly, how good, we shall see? All I know is it looks so damn real it's hard to describe to a person who never saw VR. The positioning issue must be as Chris described, again, we shall see. IMHO it's worth the effort.

 

Best

BaldyB

Denis Bolduc 

[BaldyB 20]

In IT myself, we have never looked at AMD since the Pentium 4 days - HOWEVER they may be on to something with Ryzen. Our biggest issues have always been QA, reliability, after sales support and they still have a little way to go on that front, at least here in NZ. Intel have always been rock solid in terms of performance and reliability. I am quite interested in Ryzen though, as it seems they have learned from their last 10 years and this may well be a very good CPU. In terms of VR and Oculus, I tried it a few months ago but they need to go 4K on the rift before it will seem real enough. Seemed to grainy and low-res compared to a monitor.

I never had a problem with Intels tech. I did have a problem with their business practices. My signs in my windows were my business not theirs. My main occupation was an Operating Engineer, I know all about Bulldozers but you don't Bulldoze me. I built many machines with Intel chips. In the Pentium days their graphics were good enough for office use, other than that they were junk IMHO.

The Ryzen architecture is going to be a BIG winner, trust me on that. If AMD is able to set it at a proper price point the share holders will be happy. I no longer have shares in AMD but I did and made a fair return some years ago.

NVidia is a good graphics card builder, we all know that! So is AMD/ATI. The new Vega setup will be winner too. If you saw AMD's man holding a xx Teraflop video/card unit the size of a brick in his hand that has almost the same or maybe even more power than NVidia's unit that runs Tesla or Google driver less car but just fits in the trunk. I believe it has more than 1 GPU in, 4-6 I think. But one of will be in the Vega for the consumer I believe.  If I can stuff 12-24 teraflops in my box, count me in.

I think we all notice that as time marches on Tech is racing along faster and faster. I am positive I am still alive today because advances made possible by computer technology.

 

Best and a merry Xmas.

BaldyB

Denis Bolduc

[mtrainer 136]

Exciting times for the Flight Simulator Hobby for sure!

 

Big fancy 4K monitor or an Oculus Rift....tough call!   As amazing as the Rift may be, I would miss thumbing through all my maps and charts and being able to quickly take handwritten notes, find my mouse, my martini (err...I mean fruit juice), keyboard, etc.

 

Knowing me, I'll probably buy both in time.  I want to wait to get Gen2 of the Rift and hope the resolution gets cranked up a little higher.

 

Mark Trainer

[BaldyB 20]

Exciting times for the Flight Simulator Hobby for sure!

 

Big fancy 4K monitor or an Oculus Rift....tough call!   As amazing as the Rift may be, I would miss thumbing through all my maps and charts and being able to quickly take handwritten notes, find my mouse, my martini (err...I mean fruit juice), keyboard, etc.

 

Knowing me, I'll probably buy both in time.  I want to wait to get Gen2 of the Rift and hope the resolution gets cranked up a little higher.

 

Mark Trainer

You can import Windows into the sim. I don't know how to do it yet but I see vids with charts. The knee pad map isn't the best but I kept finding it in my face.  If and I believe you can click the Windows in and out which as I'm reading here you can do. You can the make key presses and turn knobs the old fashion 2D way. I think I saw Froogle with charts, I remember seeing some in color, they looked good. I use Ailasofts EFB a lot and I will drill down into Flyinside's innards and find out how to do it. Flyinsides author/ developer/ programmer, is one heck of a good man and a genius to boot. When a user gives him a solid idea he makes it happen!

There are several ways to adjust your seat position when using FlyInside. It's important to understand the difference between the HMD:s default position in the tracked space, and the default position in the virtual cockpit. Ideally, those two should coincide, and also coincide with your central comfortable position in your real world seat. FlyInside features a bindable action that resets your HMD:s default position. It's recommended to bind this action to an easily reached button, for instance on your joystick. There is also a setting which allows you to reset simply by tapping lighly on the side of your HMD. In addition to this, FSX and P3D have their own seat position adjustments. The default is:

Up Shift+Enter Down Shift+Backspace Left Ctrl+Shift+Backspace Right Ctrl+Shift+Enter Forwards Ctrl+Backspace Backwards Ctrl+Enter Reset Ctrl+Space

The first thing you should do when starting a flight is resetting your HMD position with your bound key or by tapping lightly on your HMD. Then you can use the above keys to adjust your position to your liking. However, if you want a more permanent solution, you can edit each aircrafts aircraft.cfg so the default position is adjusted correctly. It takes a little fiddling, and editing of text files, but don’t be intimidated, it's easier than you think and well worth the trouble. The aircraft.cfg can be found under

[fsx install directory]\SimObjects\airplanes\[aircraft name]\

The numbers you need to adjust look like this:.....

The manual is available on wiki's site, get to it by Firefoxing to Flyinside.

I will use Sim Objects config files when I hve time to fix permanent positions.

 

Best

BaldyB

Benis Bolduc

[BaldyB 20]

I have not built a new system yet!

I did find ver. 1.8 on FSX steam much improved with respect to shimmering. The mouse function is somewhat better but not perfect. I do not have the Oculus controllers, have read some good reports on them. I chose the next to the highest resolution setting and reduced the tool tips size almost all the way down. When using the mouse on the PMDG 747 v3 I get the curly fingers etc. Much improved over 7.x. Not all buttons work perfect but much better now. I just use the direct button when needed. Like the PMDG 777 I need to go into the 747s aircraft cfg. file to the views section and adjust the numbers so that I'm seated at the right position, the means to do so are in Flyinside's Manual. If you don't do it that way you may need to adjust your seating position with the keyboard which is a pain IMHO, when going from outside view to back into the cockpit.

For me, shimmering is no longer even noticeable. The gauges are much more readable and seldom needs the zoom function. Before the 737 looked best because it needed fewer resources, I guess?  The 777 a bit worse. Now the 747 v3 looks amazingly better, it looks nothing like the monitor cockpit. In fact I briefly wondered if I chose the PMDGs 747 v3, it looks that different, it is absolutely different and amazing at the same time. The size and depth of the knobs on the panel look so real! All the buttons and controls work with the mouse or the direct blue dot etc. The PMDG 747 v3 looks way better than they all did and it's functionality is good enough to make it easy to fly. The FMC can be made easy to program too!

IMHO Dan Church and Co. have made a lot of progress, he say's update will perhaps be smaller but much more often. I wish PMDG would partner with Flyinside, what a combination that would be! 

More Later

BaldyB

Denis Bolduc

[77west 139]

I suffered a bit of vertigo / nausea when I tried it as your eyes said you were banking or pitching but your body was telling you, no, you are stationary. Is this improved?