Silver Kings F-4E (Milviz) Airshow Demo in Prepar3d

[Seria17hri11er 15]

16 Minutes long. A few spots there might be some jerkiness--real hard on PC--still working to improve. Would love your feedback, thumbs up, comment on YT.

 

*Note
Elevator, Ailerons, and Rudder control surfaces do not move in this replay video--Milviz/Prepar3d limitation

*Note
Audio is external, with some internal sounds--Milviz/Prepar3d limitation. Audio volume is also low, so turn it up!
 

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

16 Minutes long. A few spots there might be some jerkiness--real hard on PC--still working to improve. Would love your feedback, thumbs up, comment on YT.

 

*Note

Elevator, Ailerons, and Rudder control surfaces do not move in this replay video--Milviz/Prepar3d limitation

 

*Note

Audio is external, with some internal sounds--Milviz/Prepar3d limitation. Audio volume is also low, so turn it up!

 

 

 

Is there a link?

[Seria17hri11er 15]

Is there a link?

 

Facepalm! Video embedded now.  Thanks.  :smile:

[Cat_Dad 17]

Love the F-4 video. Looks like someone has spent a lot of time building the aircraft and making the video.

 

I do believe that naming this model of F-4 a "E" model is not quite correct. I spent over 6 years working on the USAF F-4E flight simulators at Luke AFB AZ. This particular model is definitively not a E. We had two E model sims on base and that is what the students trained on. As far as the jets on the flight-line, they were the F-4C.  Once the students got to the operational units they were flying the E's.

 

The AirForce had the C, RF-4C, D, E, and G models Later on they converted some to drones at the end of the F-4 life span.

 

As far as this site shows, the Navy/Marines flew the B, N, and I think the S.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_variants

 

 

 

All these models had different configurations in avionics and engines. I also seem to remember the Navy model did not allow the Gib (Guy in back) to fly the jet. No flight controls. He only worked the radar and other magic in the pit.

 

The big difference between the AF C and E models was the E had more thrust, and leading edge slats. Also different radars and INS units. The main items such as flight controls and basic air frames, were similar. 

 

I had hundreds of hours flying the sim while doing pre-flights for daily training and working on write-ups from the previous days flights. Sometimes when a Navigator/WSO (weapon system operator) student and instructor showed up for a scheduled block with no pilot, I would be drafted to fly for them which was great fun for me..  Other times the students were short a instructor and I was pressed in to running the instructor console.  Since one of the biggest complaint we would hear from the crews was the "Box" (flight sim" did not have the same feel as the real jet.  Close but no cigar. That search for a more realistic feel got me a 1.5 hour flight in the real F-4C. The crews were correct. The simulator was much harder to fly than the real jet. Having flown only general aviation type aircraft, (Cessna, Beech, and Piper) the F-4C was the largest aircraft I had flown but yet it felt as comfortable to me as a Cessna 150./172.

 

I always thought that if the F-4 had been upgraded with F-15/16 type engines and newer avionics she would still be flying today. Since that never happened, flying models such as this one on your desktop sim is the next best thing.

 

Terry

[Seria17hri11er 15]

Love the F-4 video. Looks like someone has spent a lot of time building the aircraft and making the video.

 

I do believe that naming this model of F-4 a "E" model is not quite correct. I spent over 6 years working on the USAF F-4E flight simulators at Luke AFB AZ. This particular model is definitively not a E. We had two E model sims on base and that is what the students trained on. As far as the jets on the flight-line, they were the F-4C.  Once the students got to the operational units they were flying the E's.

 

The AirForce had the C, RF-4C, D, E, and G models Later on they converted some to drones at the end of the F-4 life span.

 

As far as this site shows, the Navy/Marines flew the B, N, and I think the S.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_variants

 

 

 

All these models had different configurations in avionics and engines. I also seem to remember the Navy model did not allow the Gib (Guy in back) to fly the jet. No flight controls. He only worked the radar and other magic in the pit.

 

The big difference between the AF C and E models was the E had more thrust, and leading edge slats. Also different radars and INS units. The main items such as flight controls and basic air frames, were similar. 

 

I had hundreds of hours flying the sim while doing pre-flights for daily training and working on write-ups from the previous days flights. Sometimes when a Navigator/WSO (weapon system operator) student and instructor showed up for a scheduled block with no pilot, I would be drafted to fly for them which was great fun for me..  Other times the students were short a instructor and I was pressed in to running the instructor console.  Since one of the biggest complaint we would hear from the crews was the "Box" (flight sim" did not have the same feel as the real jet.  Close but no cigar. That search for a more realistic feel got me a 1.5 hour flight in the real F-4C. The crews were correct. The simulator was much harder to fly than the real jet. Having flown only general aviation type aircraft, (Cessna, Beech, and Piper) the F-4C was the largest aircraft I had flown but yet it felt as comfortable to me as a Cessna 150./172.

 

I always thought that if the F-4 had been upgraded with F-15/16 type engines and newer avionics she would still be flying today. Since that never happened, flying models such as this one on your desktop sim is the next best thing.

 

Terry

 

Hi Terry,

 

Thanks for your comments!  Indeed the paint job is from an F-4B.  I didn't state that here, but on YouTube in the comments "The Phantom is sporting the paint job of an F-4B of U.S. Navy Squadron VF-92, "Silver Kings.""

 

Indeed tons of time was spent by Milviz to model the exterior, interior, systems, and implement the flight dynamics accurately.  Thanks for sharing your experience working on the F-4 flight simulator.  Super cool that you got to fly the real thing!  That must have been an amazing experience.  I'm jealous  :smile:.  I've flown in C-130s, and C-17s--those are what I used to work on.

 

Did you have any constructive feedback on the video?  

 

• Was it too long for you?  

• Were there any particular maneuvers that you would have liked to see?  

• Would you liked to have heard more howling?  

• Would you have liked in cockpit footage?

• Did the in-cockpit audio of the hydraulics during flap and gear extension/retraction bother you at all?

• Now that it is clear that it is the F-4E with a B paint job, would you have preferred an E paint job?

• What would you think of a civilian air show type of paint job?  For example the F-104 Starfighters:

 

 

However, I would likely do something quite more elaborate than that.

 

 

Would you watch more videos like this?  I assume yes, since you are probably enamored with the Phantom, having after all worked on the real sim and having flown the real thing!  :smile:

 

Could you do me a favor?  Could you thumbs up the video and leave a comment on YT?  And could you share with any friends/colleagues that might be interested, and ask them to do the same if they like it?

 

I'd definitely recommend you pick up the Milviz F-4E and/or F-4J/S

 

F-4E

http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4E/index.php

 

F-4J/S

http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4JS/index.php

 

With Gratitude

Nicholas

[Cat_Dad 17]

Hi Terry,

 

Thanks for your comments!  Indeed the paint job is from an F-4B.  I didn't state that here, but on YouTube in the comments "The Phantom is sporting the paint job of an F-4B of U.S. Navy Squadron VF-92, "Silver Kings.""

 

Indeed tons of time was spent by Milviz to model the exterior, interior, systems, and implement the flight dynamics accurately.  Thanks for sharing your experience working on the F-4 flight simulator.  Super cool that you got to fly the real thing!  That must have been an amazing experience.  I'm jealous  :smile:.  I've flown in C-130s, and C-17s--those are what I used to work on.

 

Did you have any constructive feedback on the video?  

 

• Was it too long for you?  

• Were there any particular maneuvers that you would have liked to see?  

• Would you liked to have heard more howling?  

• Would you have liked in cockpit footage?

• Did the in-cockpit audio of the hydraulics during flap and gear extension/retraction bother you at all?

• Now that it is clear that it is the F-4E with a B paint job, would you have preferred an E paint job?

• What would you think of a civilian air show type of paint job?  For example the F-104 Starfighters:

 

 

However, I would likely do something quite more elaborate than that.

 

 

Would you watch more videos like this?  I assume yes, since you are probably enamored with the Phantom, having after all worked on the real sim and having flown the real thing!  :smile:

 

Could you do me a favor?  Could you thumbs up the video and leave a comment on YT?  And could you share with any friends/colleagues that might be interested, and ask them to do the same if they like it?

 

I'd definitely recommend you pick up the Milviz F-4E and/or F-4J/S

 

F-4E

http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4E/index.php

 

F-4J/S

http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4JS/index.php

 

With Gratitude

Nicholas

Good Morning Nicholas, 

 

I never got to fly on the C-130 but took the 5 level cdc course for flight engineer on it. Hard to believe the aircraft started flying in the 50s and still is flying now over 60 years later. Kind of like the B-52.. Never flown in the C-17 either but looks like they could be a lot of fun too with the fighter type stick vs a airliner type yoke. Did fly in the old C-141 back in the mid 70s going in and out of Thailand.

 

The model of F-4 depicted is definitely not a F=4E. In your link above and this link, you will see that the F-4E has a longer and more slender nose. Also the fairing under the nose house the M-61 Vulcan 20MM cannon which is internal verses a add-on gun pod used on the C and D model F-4s.

 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=f-4e+phantom+pictures&sa=X&biw=1536&bih=758&tbm=isch&imgil=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%253A%253BCWT11FojauHNcM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FList_of_McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_variants&source=iu&pf=m&fir=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%253A%252CCWT11FojauHNcM%252C_&usg=__XYpYMbKGsQRVhj9MQ2gpPVyojio%3D&dpr=1.25&ved=0ahUKEwiuv5Orlb7MAhUHxiYKHY8bDjEQyjcILw&ei=cbwoV-7CBoeMmwGPt7iIAw#imgrc=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%3A

 

 

The Navy B models which this one is has a more rounded nose/radar dome. 

 It really does not matter what paint job is on a aircraft, but what is under the pain that counts. 

 

Now as for the airshow, maybe shewing cockpit and external shots together might give the viewer some sense of what it is like to be flying. The external shots are very good and I do not think I could fly like that using only external views. As for the cockpit noise, the one thing I remember, remember this was a few years ago. (10 Jun 81, tail number 64868) Had to go back to my pilot log book to get the date. While there noticed the flight was not 1.5 hours but 2.0 hours. My pilot was a short tiime Captain and Ip (instructor pilot) so he could legally sign me off as dual instruction in the aircraft. Also at that time, I had 320 hours i in my log book which is about what a new Air Force pilot training into the F-4 would have. Sorry about the wondering off topic. The cockpit nose level once the canopy is closed is "Very" quiet. Remember you have a helmet on with cup type earphones so that might cut some noise but you could talk at normal voice levels with no problem. As for the hydraulic and gear noise, yes they made noise  but nothing strange. I would say maybe what you hear in a modern jet airliner. 

 

As for the F-104s, that would be great to see the zippers (F-104) do something like that. Beside having the two F-4E sims in our building, we had one F-104G sim also. The Germans trained on the F-104G there on base along withe F-15 A and F-15B models.   The F-104s were similar in their cockpits and both had aircraft of the GE J-79 engine..  Also at that time, there was one civilian F-104 built out of spare parts that was trying to go for a record flight but crashed when the pilot had to eject due to engine problems.

 

As far as the recommendation for the video, I will try but I do not know how to use all of that fancy social media stuff. I do not know how to send/receive a message on the cell phone which is over 7 years old. This forum is about as technical as I get.

 

Terry

[Seria17hri11er 15]

Good Morning Nicholas, 

 

I never got to fly on the C-130 but took the 5 level cdc course for flight engineer on it. Hard to believe the aircraft started flying in the 50s and still is flying now over 60 years later. Kind of like the B-52.. Never flown in the C-17 either but looks like they could be a lot of fun too with the fighter type stick vs a airliner type yoke. Did fly in the old C-141 back in the mid 70s going in and out of Thailand.

 

The model of F-4 depicted is definitely not a F=4E. In your link above and this link, you will see that the F-4E has a longer and more slender nose. Also the fairing under the nose house the M-61 Vulcan 20MM cannon which is internal verses a add-on gun pod used on the C and D model F-4s.

 

 https://www.google.com/search?q=f-4e+phantom+pictures&sa=X&biw=1536&bih=758&tbm=isch&imgil=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%253A%253BCWT11FojauHNcM%253Bhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fen.wikipedia.org%25252Fwiki%25252FList_of_McDonnell_Douglas_F-4_Phantom_II_variants&source=iu&pf=m&fir=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%253A%252CCWT11FojauHNcM%252C_&usg=__XYpYMbKGsQRVhj9MQ2gpPVyojio%3D&dpr=1.25&ved=0ahUKEwiuv5Orlb7MAhUHxiYKHY8bDjEQyjcILw&ei=cbwoV-7CBoeMmwGPt7iIAw#imgrc=S2LV26CFMNoP5M%3A

 

 

The Navy B models which this one is has a more rounded nose/radar dome. 

 It really does not matter what paint job is on a aircraft, but what is under the pain that counts. 

 

Now as for the airshow, maybe shewing cockpit and external shots together might give the viewer some sense of what it is like to be flying. The external shots are very good and I do not think I could fly like that using only external views. As for the cockpit noise, the one thing I remember, remember this was a few years ago. (10 Jun 81, tail number 64868) Had to go back to my pilot log book to get the date. While there noticed the flight was not 1.5 hours but 2.0 hours. My pilot was a short tiime Captain and Ip (instructor pilot) so he could legally sign me off as dual instruction in the aircraft. Also at that time, I had 320 hours i in my log book which is about what a new Air Force pilot training into the F-4 would have. Sorry about the wondering off topic. The cockpit nose level once the canopy is closed is "Very" quiet. Remember you have a helmet on with cup type earphones so that might cut some noise but you could talk at normal voice levels with no problem. As for the hydraulic and gear noise, yes they made noise  but nothing strange. I would say maybe what you hear in a modern jet airliner. 

 

As for the F-104s, that would be great to see the zippers (F-104) do something like that. Beside having the two F-4E sims in our building, we had one F-104G sim also. The Germans trained on the F-104G there on base along withe F-15 A and F-15B models.   The F-104s were similar in their cockpits and both had aircraft of the GE J-79 engine..  Also at that time, there was one civilian F-104 built out of spare parts that was trying to go for a record flight but crashed when the pilot had to eject due to engine problems.

 

As far as the recommendation for the video, I will try but I do not know how to use all of that fancy social media stuff. I do not know how to send/receive a message on the cell phone which is over 7 years old. This forum is about as technical as I get.

 

Terry

 

 

Ok, I see what you are saying now about the F-4 model.  Thanks.  I will make a post on Milviz's forums.

 

It is crazy how long the C-130 and B-52 have been flying.  You were a Flight Engineer on the C-130, or just did the CDCs?  The C-17 is sporty as hell compared to the C-130  :smile: .  I met many folks who used to work on C-141s before Charleston AFB switched to C-17s.  They remembered it fondly.  They told me some stories about one C-141 that had a tail strike on landing and had to be repaired by Lockheed.  Afterwards, during cruise flight, even with Autopilot on, she wouldn't stay level, she would always porpoise up and down a bit.

 

On my video:

 

I flew the routine entirely from the cockpit and was recording a replay file with Prepar3d.  Then I played it back and switched to external views and captured the video.

 

F-104:

 

I was only talking about painting the F-4 in an civilian airshow paint scheme similar to the F-104.  No F-104s available for Prepar3d as far as I know.  Last one out was by Captain Sim for FS9.

[Christopher Low 5,325]

Good heavens. I decided to check out this thread, and then noticed it was posted by one of my Assetto Corsa forum friends! :smile:

[Seria17hri11er 15]

Good heavens. I decided to check out this thread, and then noticed it was posted by one of my Assetto Corsa forum friends! :smile:

 

:smile:   Hey bud!  Nice to see you here too.  Let me know what you think of the video!

[Cat_Dad 17]

Ok, I see what you are saying now about the F-4 model.  Thanks.  I will make a post on Milviz's forums.

 

It is crazy how long the C-130 and B-52 have been flying.  You were a Flight Engineer on the C-130, or just did the CDCs?  The C-17 is sporty as hell compared to the C-130  :smile: .  I met many folks who used to work on C-141s before Charleston AFB switched to C-17s.  They remembered it fondly.  They told me some stories about one C-141 that had a tail strike on landing and had to be repaired by Lockheed.  Afterwards, during cruise flight, even with Autopilot on, she wouldn't stay level, she would always porpoise up and down a bit.

 

On my video:

 

I flew the routine entirely from the cockpit and was recording a replay file with Prepar3d.  Then I played it back and switched to external views and captured the video.

 

F-104:

 

I was only talking about painting the F-4 in an civilian airshow paint scheme similar to the F-104.  No F-104s available for Prepar3d as far as I know.  Last one out was by Captain Sim for FS9.

No not a flight engineer. Too blind for a Air Force flight physical even though I was a civilian instructor pilot (FAA).

 

I take it the tail strikes on the 141s were after they stretched it into the B model?

 

Terry

[Christopher Low 5,325]

Not a bad video, mate. If I had to make a suggestion, I would say that the plane looks quite small in the field of view for extended periods of time. Personally, I would close up the shot a bit when the aircraft is at distance, and maybe also reduce the length of time that it is far away at the start of the display.

[Milviz 919]

He's using the included J model for his video.  (this is a bonus external ONLY model in the F-4E product).

 

The F-4E (seen here: http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4E/index.php) does, indeed, have the thin, elongated nose and the gun under said nose.

 

Thanks.

[Seria17hri11er 15]

No not a flight engineer. Too blind for a Air Force flight physical even though I was a civilian instructor pilot (FAA).

 

I take it the tail strikes on the 141s were after they stretched it into the B model?

 

Terry

 

Haha.  I believe it definitely was the stretched B model 141.

 

 

Not a bad video, mate. If I had to make a suggestion, I would say that the plane looks quite small in the field of view for extended periods of time. Personally, I would close up the shot a bit when the aircraft is at distance, and maybe also reduce the length of time that it is far away at the start of the display.

 

Thanks Christopher.  Really valuable to me.  I thought that people would probably feel that way, but really wanted to do something that felt like (most of the time) you were an actual spectator at an airshow.  Alas, people aren't really looking for that I guess, I didn't convey that well enough, or internet attention span perhaps.  Easy fix for future videos.

 

Thanks again.

 

 

He's using the included J model for his video.  (this is a bonus external ONLY model in the F-4E product).

 

The F-4E (seen here: http://milviz.com/flight/products/F4E/index.php) does, indeed, have the thin, elongated nose and the gun under said nose.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Thanks Colin.  Sorry for the mix up.

[Guest]

A few spots there might be some jerkiness

 

I haven't flown it in a while and there have been 2 or 3 updates since then. But I can tell you that the Radar caused stutters in the version I flew. I cannot remember exactly where the file is but it the panels.cfg (I think) and if you comment out entry 33 (I think) you will see its for the radar, the stutters will be gone. Of course the radar won't work either. Here is a video that I made after making that change:

 

Having watched your video I would say that the radar is at least partially responsible for the stutters :-)

[Seria17hri11er 15]

I haven't flown it in a while and there have been 2 or 3 updates since then. But I can tell you that the Radar caused stutters in the version I flew. I cannot remember exactly where the file is but it the panels.cfg (I think) and if you comment out entry 33 (I think) you will see its for the radar, the stutters will be gone. Of course the radar won't work either. Here is a video that I made after making that change:

 

Having watched your video I would say that the radar is at least partially responsible for the stutters :-)

 

Oh, thanks so much Avidean!  I will definitely give that a try.  You've got Prepar3d running buttery smooth!  Beautiful!   :smile: