What kind of 4K TV?

[Guest]

 

 

if I can even figure out if they're capable of 30Hz

 

That's the most important criteria if you want smooth motion with very high graphics settings -- at least for P3D anyway.  You'll also want 60Hz for other shootem'ups.

 

I sit about 3 feet away from my 50" (flat).  If you go curved, I'd recommend larger monitor 60-75".

 

I've had great success with my older Sony 4K, uses HDMI 2.0 ... do NOT use converters/adapters, stay with native ports (either DisplayPort 1.2 or HDMI 2.0).

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

 

 

I sit about 3 feet away from my 50" (flat). If you go curved, I'd recommend larger monitor 60-75".

 

Well, I wanted to be surprised, not shocked.  As much as I'd like the 'perfect' display, good enough with a flat 50 or less will do.  I guess the only way to confirm 30Hz is to try it.  Why not converters?...not that I'm using any except to convert a mini-HDMI to an HDMI.

[vgbaron 3,483]

I admit I haven't looked for the answer before this post but do the listed specs on the 4K TV's show 30Hz, 60Hz modes. Meaning, other than trial and error or other's experiences, how would you know?

 

Vic

[hhbrbg 136]

Very interesting post. 4K TV for birthday, what a great idea!!
I have to talk to my wife. I hope that airplanes and not knives flying afterwards at home. :wink:

To be serious, may I ask the gentlemen if it’s possible to work with such a large UHD TV each day?  I do a lot of work with Visual Studio and I have to mind on my eyes.

Tom

[Guest]

Why not converters?...not that I'm using any except to convert a mini-HDMI to an HDMI.

 

I'm not aware of any mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter that supports HDMI 2.0 (i.e. 4K upto 60Hz) ... there are HDMI 2.0 to HDMI mini 2.0 "single cables" that claim support for 4K upto 60Hz, but I haven't seen any adapters with full HDMI 2.0 support?  Adapters will often downgrade specs, especially with HDMI that has content protection as part of the protocol.

 

 

 

if it’s possible to work with such a large UHD TV each day?

 

Yes, very possible, I did for a while ... but if you wear glasses that have a very specific focal range it can be a problem when looking corner to corner ... this is where a curved screen would come in handy but needs to be positioned just right.

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

 

Meaning, other than trial and error or other's experiences, how would you know?

 

Some of the specs aren't listed in the manual and/or may change. It's actually even more complex, my Sony TV for example received several "updates" (it automatically downloads and installs firmware updates) ... some of those updates fixed a few issues with HDMI 2.0 and res/hz/digital format support.  In most cases it is trial and error ... that's why I've always recommend to make sure one has a good return policy on whatever monitor they buy.

 

Some people have noticed "mouse lag" at the 30Hz, I don't seem to have that issue with my Sony.  I run basic OS mouse drivers with NO special features enabled (i.e. no mouse trail, no mouse drop shadow).

 

When 8K hits the "mass" market later this year or 2017, it'll drive 4K monitor prices down even more.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

 

 

I'm not aware of any mini-HDMI to HDMI adapter that supports HDMI 2.0 (i.e. 4K upto 60Hz) ... there are HDMI 2.0 to HDMI mini 2.0 "single cables" that claim support for 4K upto 60Hz, but I haven't seen any adapters with full HDMI 2.0 support? Adapters will often downgrade specs, especially with HDMI that has content protection as part of the protocol.

 

Mini HDMI is all my GTX970 video card has.  It came with its own converter.  Not sure if it's 2.0 or what.

[ARCO 245]

Gentlemen, before you sit 3 to 5 feet away from your LED TV screen, I highly recommend you speak to a good ophthalmologist!!! 

 

This sounds terribly unreasonable, we are not talking of an iPad or an iPhone here, these two above devices should be used some 70 cm away from our eyes, so what about a large screen TV that is many times larger!

 

LED are known to be very agressive for the human eye retina, by being so close to your TV devices you are endangering your eyesight for the long term and this is irreversible. TV are meant to be watch at a much greater distance than computer monitors.

 

I know this is not going to be a popular post, but I happen to have a first hand knowledge of this issue, and believe me this is no fun at all, talk to your eye doctor first, and better choose a knowledgeable one! If you want to know more, read the study Complutense University of Madrid claiming that up to 99 per cent of the cells that protect the retina can be damaged by LEDs. Google it. I have read another study made more recently by one of the top European Hospitals for the blinds that is not written in English unfortunately and thus I cannot share here.

 

A friendly word of caution, now we are all free and grown men, and in 2016 there are still millions of smokers world wide in spite of what we know about tobacco, this is called freedom!

[Gregg_Seipp 565]

This sounds terribly unreasonable, we are not talking of an iPad or an iPhone here, these two above devices should be used some 70 cm away from our eyes, so what about a large screen TV that is many times larger!

 

Thanks for the warning.  70cm is a little more than 2 feet.  I think it would be a factor of brightness more than size that would matter, yes?  I found several references to the study you mentioned on the web.  (OTOH, I do remember my parents telling me over and over again I would ruin my eyes from watching too much TV...turned out, age had more to do with it.)

[Guest]

 

 

It came with its own converter.  Not sure if it's 2.0 or what.

 

I would recommend something like this cable. 

 

 

talk to your eye doctor first

 

Good advice, however, all such studies done on LED and their impact on eyes have NOT been consistent and much of the research was retracted as independent study groups could not verify the findings.  But with that said, I do recommend you check with a qualified eye doctor.  I've been coding close proximity to LEDs for almost 20 years now (often 10-16 hrs a day).  I have regular yearly eye exams and all is good with my retina ... I have developed mild astigmatism over my 50+ years (34 of them in front of a monitor of some sort) but that is a very common problem and not related to LEDs.

 

I would however also recommend that one looks away from their monitor for a few minutes from time to time on a regular basis ... but perhaps not during landing

 

Cheers, Rob.

[warbirds 555]

Thanks for the warning but I have been doing closeup graphic work on LCD and LED monitors and TV's for a very long time and my eyes are better than they wear five years ago and in fact I don't were my glasses anymore.

 

The only thing that happens to me is dry eyes so when that pops up I take a break and look at things far away (eye doctor once told me to keep my pc working eyes in good shape was to look at something far away out a window for about 5 minutes each hour).

[RGS 1]

Good topic.

 

I'm particularly interested in the impact that going to a bigger screen might have on one's vision. I've always used large monitors, from 21 inch 4:3 CRTs (back in the day!) to 2x 24 inch 16:10 LCDs and for the past 8 or so years a 30 inch Apple Cinema Display (I'm not a fan of multiple monitors; the 2x setup was prior to working for myself). The 30 inch ACD is by far the best monitor I've owned to date and has given me less eye strain than any used previously (with the CRTs being the worst, particularly as they aged).

 

I would have thought that a larger screen could actually be a lot better for your eyes than a smaller one as:

 

1. You tend to sit further away from it.

2. Your eyes actually have to move *a lot* more, darting from corner to corner (compare this to reading on a phone/tablet at close range).

 

Ideally I'd like to switch to a 55 inch 4K 60Hz Sony TV, for both full-time work (3D/2D graphics/design primarily) and simming/gaming (I remember the upgrade to the 30 inch being a real eye opener; it felt as though I was no longer looking through a window, but now it feels a little limited and 4K offers the chance to go bigger without compromising the details). I view my current monitor at arm's length; the TV would be about double that distance. Due to the large size I'd be moving my eyes even more than the 30 inch, which I'd have thought would be a good thing, but am slightly concerned about sitting in front of such a beast for such extended time periods, particularly as it's a TV and not a monitor (not sure how much of a difference there is these days, but obviously one was designed for extended use at close-ish range, the other not).

 

Luckily I sit next to a window with a great view, so giving my eyes a rest every now and then is easy .

 

Thanks for your thoughts,

 

 

Robert

[nudata 10]

There are studies that suggest that blue light is the problem with LED displays. My 28" BenQ has the ability to reduce the level of blue light. I use the 30% setting and it does not deteriorate the quality of white once you "get used" to it. That is, initially after the reduction you notice a slight yellow tinge to whites but after awhile that disappears. I suggest Googling, Binging, or whatever, to understand how this might effect you.

 

I had the dry eyes syndrome. However, since reducing blue by 30% it has slowly reduced so that it is no longer a common event. Yes, looking out the window is helpful.

[ARCO 245]

Gregg will hate me for hijacking his thread this way on his birthday present inquiry... Forgive me Gregg, I only mean well for friends and simming is a great bunch of friends sharing the same passion for aviation and simulation, so please dont take my comments in a negative way but rather as a friendly opinion, then as said before we all live the way we see fit!

Robert, to answer your questions, if you are patient enough, here are two links to very informative documents, the first one is understandable from everybody, the second might be a bit more challenging for non specialists (to AVSIM moderator, if you disagree with these links - accessible to general public as well as researchers - please feel free to remove them):

• http://www.bluelightexposed.com/#where-is-the-increased-exposure-to-blue-light-coming-from
• http://www.reticare.com/imagenes/documents/18.-Behar-Cohen-2011.pdf

There are many more available. It is true to say Rob that there is no 100% hard evidence yet that LED would certainly cause retina damages, and medical research always lags behind new technologies because it needs validated experiments on long periods of time before getting to a solid conclusion. However, a number of different research point in the same direction regarding LED, making them probable cause of irreversible retina damages on animals, what this means is that - as humans - we ought to be cautious about how we use our devices and lighting in general, nobody said LED ought to be discarded...

New Virtual Reality helmets are an even more serious threat to eyes due to the immediate proximity of the small LED screen with the eyes, many researchers (ophthalmologists) worldwide are getting extremely anxious to study the effect in the long term of such hasty innovations, lets not forget that we are the Guinea-pigs generation! Medical history starts here for such problems and it may take another ten to twenty years before researchers will eventually decide what ought to be done...

To close on the subject, here are a few advices from qualified eye specialists:

• iPad and iPhone, computer screens, look at them from a distance of 70cm (2.5 feet), the bigger the screen, the farther you sit
• TV watch them from a distance equivalent to 3 times the diagonale dimension
• If you really want to sit close to your screen and immerse yourself in your simulation, buy a short-throw, medium throw or regular projector, you thus eliminate most of the direct impact blue light wave length of LED, in addition your cockpit will have the real life size...
• Whenever working for long periods of time on LED screens, try the 20/20/20 method: every 20 minutes, stop for 20 seconds and focus on something located at least 20 meters (65 feet) away to relieve your eyes.

Now Gregg enjoy your new TV, unless after reading this, you decided to convince your family to go for the projector...

[Cargostorm 151]

 

 

if I can even figure out if they're capable of 30Hz

That's the most important criteria if you want smooth motion with very high graphics settings -- at least for P3D anyway.

 

From my experience, 30 Hz will however not work with TrackIR. The up &d own and sidewards head movement become fuzzy. This is because 30Hz will give you 30 fps with vertical sync on. TrackIR loves high fps - the higher the better.

[JasonW 32]

I cant comment on the 4k part but I use a 55" and its just too big for sitting in front of, like a monitor. I plan on going back to, at most a 48" when I take the 4k plunge.