Copycat site hosting Avsim files

[Avcomware 1]

Hi.You are entitled to do anything you want with your work. This does not mean that others, that feel differently, have to do the same.There are many people that work in the background trying to help with the Freeware developing and testing. Some want the credit and some don

[Guest kalas]

I agree with what your saying and all but you waited a whole 10 hours for a reply then posted on there board? I read your post and others replying and got to say even though you was upset you could have handled it better. You could have gave them at least 24 hours, not everyone lives in same time zone and perhaps the admin there hadn't check his mail yet.

[tf51d 284]

>>Is anybody at Avsim, willing to look closely at this lot,>as>>the last thing we need is another bunch of freeware pirates.>>Not quite with you here, DC. All files on their site appear>to be freeware, available as freeware. If an author expressly>states - as perhaps you do in your EULA - that files are not>to be uploaded to any or that particular site, well there's a>reason for complaint - but otherwise freeware is freeware. >Where's the piracy? >>Maybe I'm missing your point, so no flames please.>>Mark>No flames, but under copyright law freeware maintains the authors rights, and if not expressly consented too, the default is you do not have the right on your own to redistribute. To do this the author would need to give permission or puts the item in the public domain where all copyrights to the item is waived. Freeware and public domain are 2 different things. Freeware is no different then payware, except you are not charged anything for it's use. If an author places the item in the publc domain, then he voluntarilly relinguishes his copyright rights. The author would need to state this. An item can also be placed in the public domain by the courts where an item doesn't meet the test for copyright protection. An example of this is the White Page Telephone directories. THE US Supreme Court ruled, the listings does not constitute enough creativity to warrant Copyright Protection, and therefore the telcos, and other publishers, are not allowed to copyright them.

[neil0311 366]

>Thanks to those who offered support on this.>>I knew there would be a couple of people who do not see a>problem with what FS2004.com have done! That attitude in this>community is hardly encouraging to the thousands of freeware>developers out there. Perhaps, if the product had a price tag>on it, the response would have been different.>>Does a freeware developer not have the same rights as a>commercial developer?>>Ok, plagiarism was the wrong word, bit read on and you may>understand my anger with this lot. Storm in a tea cup it>ain't!!>>I contacted them privately 10 hours prior to posting in their>forum and nothing was done with regards to the file.>Obviously, my posting got the file removed. A direct approach>I know, but effective.>>The site owners have so far failed to apologise.>Forgive me for not understanding your complaint. I admit that I don't produce any freeware, but I also don't really download any either. I generally buy payware, due to the mostly higher quality and support that comes with the purchase. I am honestly at a loss why you would produce "freeware" and then put restrictions on it. I would support you if someone was altering or modifying the content, but I am really not quite sure why you are up in the air at someone allowing others to share in your work, unaltered, that you have graciously made available as "freeware". I think it is poor manners for someone to share it if you expressly asked them not to do so, but I fail to see the actual harm, and I think waiting on an apology is a bit melodramatic. It seems like you're making this all about you, rather than just quietly sharing a great piece of freeware with the community.

[tgibson 11]

Hi Henry and Matt,I've observed that people with your philosophy (and I share it) seem to last longer in the freeware world. Others eventually get so frustrated they leave FS or go payware. So I say - upload my stuff as you please, wherever you please - just means free advertising for my web site (which is plastered all over the readme).And those who take my stuff and don't give me credit - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Glad to hear it was good enough to steal!Take care,--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

[Paul Golding 92]

>So if a Dreamfleet product appeared on such a site, how much>free time would you give up to persue that site?Well as they'd have to validate it and pay before it worked, I guess I'd be more than happy. OK, that wasn't useful.Don't get me wrong, I totally agree with what you're saying about this kind of activity being out of order. The point is that you will not stop it.Far worse than this has been discussed over and again, and the only thing you can do is politely request the removal of your file and hope the site concerned will comply.>I see no difference between a $35 product and a $0 product in>this principle, do you?>>And as for "it's happened and it's resolved". will that>attitude stop such sites carrying on pilfering? The only>benefit, I could see would be if the freeware acted as a>promotional item for payware.Of course that attitude won't change anything, but neither will yours. As I said, you're 100% correct.Look, I've had plenty of my freeware show up all over the place when it's only ever been uploaded to Avsim and Flightsim. Worse than that, it's still appearing even now and usually with somebody elses f*****g name on it as the author.It won't stop, I've given up worrying about it and whenever I see or hear of it I just request the file is removed....and it is.That said, I'm 100% behind your motives and truely hope you kind find a way of sites like Avsim to stop this kind of thing.

[jeffyen 0]

The question of 'principle' is more nuanced actually. I have my freeware stuff placed on 'other websites' before. Personally, I don't mind because my principles for freeware doesn't disallow it. The idea is to be able to get the product to as many people as possible.Even if people are making money out of it. An example would be the school of thought that I subscribe to, the Creative Commons Deed (Attribution-ShareAlike)http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0/However, I would agree that if it's the author's explicit intent that files shouldn't be put on a certain site, the owner should comply within a reasonable amount of time. It's just plain courtesy...>Hi Paul,>>So if a Dreamfleet product appeared on such a site, how much>free time would you give up to persue that site?>>I see no difference between a $35 product and a $0 product in>this principle, do you?>>And as for "it's happened and it's resolved". will that>attitude stop such sites carrying on pilfering? The only>benefit, I could see would be if the freeware acted as a>promotional item for payware.

[Guest Kilstorm McBride]

I'll ring in on this neil0311. I have no association with any of the parties nor am a developer but do understand the fact that at times some people want their work associated with certain outlets only. Like an exculsive story being told to a favorite interviewer. Sure the story can be told over and over at that but they got the story form only one interviewer. What if the interviewer worked for CNN. The story might take a different light if the interviewer worked for the National Enquirer.The way I see it is he is contributing his work to a community and likes the way Avsim does as well. Nothing wrong with wanting to see your work provided to the community by only those sites or people you believe in.I dont have anything to say on any other part of this ordeal.Kilstorm

[Max Kraus 338]

I think this topic has WAAAY over reacted. You all should be THANKFUL you can get the file in 2 places. Jeez man, talk about over the top.

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Max, as I posted before: whether freeware, payware, shareware or even underwear (grin!), the author is the sole owner of the copyright. Unless this copyright is explicitly waved, the author is the only person who is allowed to publish his work and make decisions about where it is published. Copyright is an "immaterial possession", in other words it is an owned property.If you think the reaction "over the top", and believe the author should be thankful for having his copyright violated (which is a felony, by the way), then you seem to have very little respect for other peoples' possessions. I would hate to let you into my house, because after you leave I'd probably find it half empty. And according to you I should even be thankful, because my possessions are now in TWO places: my home, and yours.Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[tf51d 284]

>I think this topic has WAAAY over reacted. You all should be>THANKFUL you can get the file in 2 places. Jeez man, talk>about over the top.Your missing the point! No one person site, or sites other than the original author or developer has the right to, on his own determine how and if his/her product is to be distributed, without explicit consent, or if he waived his rights by explicitly placing the item in the public domain. It is wrong, and more importantly it is illegal, leaving sites legally libal that host these files. This is why AVSIM and other repretable sites, act quickly when it is determined an item was uploaded to their libraries violates the original author's copyright. You may not agree with this policy, but only the author of the product has the right to determine how the product is distributed, and under what circumstances it can be used. (Other then what is considered Fair use under copyright law, which allows you to copy for backup purposes for personal use only, redistribution is not considered "Fair Use").

[Guest David Cooper]

Max,The first rule of forum posting is...'Ensure that your posts use more characters than your signature'That way people will take your comments seriously!:( We are not seeking recompense from FS2004.com for hosting the file, the whole point of the thread is to highlight the actions of other file sites in an attempt to generate revenue. You as a video maker, freely allow them to host your files, I as I developer choose not to. It does not give them the right to host my files regardless and then attempt to pick holes in my reasoning! Perhaps it is you who should be grateful for getting somebody to host your files!:-fume

[Guest David Cooper]

Hiya Matt,More role at UGA is very similar to yours at PAI.If an individual was to plunder the freeware PAI Afcad library and then upload the files to FS2004.com, would your reaction be the same?

[Guest kalas]

>Max,>>The first rule of forum posting is...>>'Ensure that your posts use more characters than your>signature'>>That way people will take your comments seriously!:( >> We are not seeking recompense from FS2004.com for hosting the>file, the whole point of the thread is to highlight the>actions of other file sites in an attempt to generate revenue.>You as a video maker, freely allow them to host your files, I>as I developer choose not to. It does not give them the right>to host my files regardless and then attempt to pick holes in>my reasoning! >>Perhaps it is you who should be grateful for getting somebody>to host your files!:-fume I guess flaming is your game.Get over it, fs2004.com didn't take your file and claim it as there own. They removed it after you flamed them on there message board. If you don't want your files elsewhere that is your prerogative. Actually this is first time i have ever heard of your site or your files. Don't people make freeware so other simmers can have a better game?

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Sigh... Yet another person who doesn't have the foggiest idea about copyright legislation and its related felonies. It's truly astonishing how many people there are in the flightsimming world who have little or no understanding of the concepts "property" and "ownership".Be well!Jaap Verduijn.