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Copycat site hosting Avsim files

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Guest David Cooper

Jaap,I cannot agree more and this was the purpose of my original post. FS2004.com are freeware pirates and sites like these should be purged from the community. A little strong I know, but so far their attempts to defend their actions, carry little substance or credibility.Judging by the volume of adds on FS2004.com and their add rates (up to $180 per week), which more than cover bandwidth/server costs, somebody at FS2004.com is making an income from attracting visitors to this site by hosting unauthorised downloads.Can any of the Avsim staff share Avsim's official line on this matter?

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Our policy is simple; we do not "harvest" files from elsewhere to place on AVSIM. Only authors or their designees are permitted to upload. If some enthusiastic user uploads a file, and the author does not want it uploaded to AVSIM, we immediately remove it. If a file is protested for ANY reason, we immediately remove it. "Immediate" is defined as that amount of time it takes to notify a library manager, for the manager to come on duty, and to remove the file. Which is to say, normally within 12 to 24 hours. But most time it is measured in minutes. We also encourage the use (and adherence to...) a EULA to express the EXACT intent of the author as to how the file can be used and distributed.

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Guest David Cooper

Hi Tom,Is there an Avsim policy regarding other sites being able to plunder the Avsim file library for their own benefit, or is it up to the individual file provider to persue people like FS2004.com?We all must register to gain access to the library. I understand the technical reasons for registration, and when I upload a file, I must agree to the strict anti-piracy rules. But, when I register to download, I don't have to agree to the file providers distribution rights.There have been numerous occasions on Ebay recently, where people have been selling DVD-roms of freeware FS files downloaded from Avsim. Could Avsim help it's freeware providers and introduce a policy regarding file hosting?

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I'm sure it would be a matter of a few minutes editing to add something along these lines, but for what benefit?If someone from anyoldfswebsite.com chooses to download from Avsim, clicking an "OK" box after reading the terms isn't going to change anything. It's not like it can be enforced in any way, unless it could be proved that someone downloaded from Avsim and uploaded elsewhere. And even if it were proved, what happens next?I think it's a case of "it's happened and it's resolved". If authors are bothered by this kind of thing (remembering we're not actually talking about someone re-releasing in their own name or anything), then it's up to authors to keep an eye on other sites and request files be removed if they are found there. SOme sites obviously will do this, and others won't..........and you won't change that.Personally, I found this kind of thing way too time consuming with my own freeware stuff and just accepted it happens. Of course, it all depends on how much free time you have :-)http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...BANNER_PAUL.jpg


Cheers

 

Paul Golding

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People have had their accounts terminated in the past for pilfering the library with the sole or main purpose of uploading to other sites.Problem is usually finding out who is the culprit, if it doesn't involve someone actively downloading tons of files, more than they can ever be expected to use, and those files appearing somewhere else shortly after (and being noticed) there's little to be done.

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Guest David Cooper

Hi Paul,So if a Dreamfleet product appeared on such a site, how much free time would you give up to persue that site?I see no difference between a $35 product and a $0 product in this principle, do you?And as for "it's happened and it's resolved". will that attitude stop such sites carrying on pilfering? The only benefit, I could see would be if the freeware acted as a promotional item for payware.

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Guest David Cooper

A simple yes/no question, with regards to the file owners rights, prior to download, would certainly make some people think twice before redistributing.

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As developers, we choose to support certain flightsim sites such as AVSIM by uploading our files to those specific libraries. I consider it a donation of our work in support of theirs. Freeware is only free because we choose to waive the right to be compensated for the value of the software - it does not waive rights of ownership of the work.What is at issue is that FS2004.com is earning advertising revenue from the freeware scenery that we explicitly uploaded to this website and explicitly stated in our EULA that no one except AVSIM (and a couple of others) have the right to host those files (FS2004.com is hosting both FREEflow Florida and Bermuda - we have not contacted them regarding this yet). I have no idea how much revenue that site generates, nor do I know if its simply covering bandwidth or it they earn a profit - but, this is denying AVSIM of that revenue, and I have no desire to support their website. It is a violation of the EULA, and it is wrong. In fact, using the EULA model pioneered here, we state that the software is only freeware if downloaded from AVSIM (and the few others). If the software is obtained elsewhere, there is an arbitrary cost for the scenery. However, as a freeware developer, "what am I going to do about it?". We don't have the wherewithal to pursue reimbursement (nor desire, really) from FS2004.com. We just want our rights and desires regarding which websites we want to benefit from our work to be respected...


I7-7700k@4.7ghz | 32gb RAM | EVGA GTX1080 8gb | Mostly P3Dv4.4 (also IL2:BoX, DCS, XP11)

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AVSIM already has a "FREEWARE with limitations on distribution" category - but that's just words.


I7-7700k@4.7ghz | 32gb RAM | EVGA GTX1080 8gb | Mostly P3Dv4.4 (also IL2:BoX, DCS, XP11)

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>Hi Paul,>>So if a Dreamfleet product appeared on such a site, how much>free time would you give up to persue that site?>>I see no difference between a $35 product and a $0 product in>this principle, do you?>>And as for "it's happened and it's resolved". will that>attitude stop such sites carrying on pilfering? The only>benefit, I could see would be if the freeware acted as a>promotional item for payware.>>>> It's a simple question with a simple answer, if said developer of a product clearly states that for any party to disbribute his product one must then ask for permission and fails to do so, then certainly this is a violation as set out in the ELUA. Now, those who have created "freeware" usually try to upload to the major sites mainly because this gets them and their product known to the comunity at large which is not limited to Avsim. While it is true that many simply do not mind that others take such liberty with thier files others as this situation clearly shows does. And yet, this is not the issue is it? The issue is permission plain and simple. I do agree that at least 24 hours should have been giving as a courtesy but as I am not the developer in question that was for him to decide not me as in fact he was not given anything except frustration. [h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|


Randy J Smith

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Guest rbrown3rd

>However, as a freeware developer, "what am I going to do about>it?". We don't have the wherewithal to pursue reimbursement>(nor desire, really) from FS2004.com. We just want our rights>and desires regarding which websites we want to benefit from>our work to be respected...>>Scott,As a co developer on the Freeflow projects I agree with all you have said. The key lies within the lines you stated, quoted above. What can we do about it? We have no staff of attorneys and certainly cannot afford to pursue it on a personal basis.

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Guest HenryWilliam

There is a very easy way to go around this grief causing matter. Way to often you see or hear about someones work that have beeen "stolen" it means uploaded to other sites without asking permission, used by others which claims credit for the files and so one. Im only a "painter" while i care for the modelmaker's wishes i just give away the textures for all with no restriction at all. In this way i've eliminated a great source of irritating observations regarding my work. If someone is stupid enough to by it, well i don't care, and if Ferdy takes down any of my textures, i've decided to just ignore it instead of time consuming exchange of e-mails that mostly won't get you anywhere except causing grief. Therefore i will include in the "readme file" that i dont't care what happen to my textures....Just my 2 centsH.W

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Guest rbrown3rd

>>What is at issue is that FS2004.com is earning advertising>revenue from the freeware scenery that we explicitly uploaded>to this website and explicitly stated in our EULA that no one>except AVSIM (and a couple of others) have the right to host>those files (FS2004.com is hosting both FREEflow Florida and>Bermuda - we have not contacted them regarding this yet). I>have no idea how much revenue that site generates, nor do I>know if its simply covering bandwidth or it they earn a profit>- but, this is denying AVSIM of that revenue, and I have no>desire to support their website. It is a violation of the>EULA, and it is wrong. ........and what is selling? If the site that is making the free download available has ads to help pay the price of supporting the site is that "selling?" In the case of the Freeflow scenery there are very specific conditions set out as Scott points out. Technically, the FS2004.com is violating those conditions. I went to the site and went through the download process and at no time is money asked for. Yet, as Scott points out, this denies revenue from Avsim because any download hits for our scenery from Avsim are diverted to FS2004.com and in our case I think that is the complaint.

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>However, as a freeware developer, "what am I going to do about>it?". We don't have the wherewithal to pursue reimbursement>(nor desire, really) from FS2004.com. We just want our rights>and desires regarding which websites we want to benefit from>our work to be respected...>>As a developer that has had his work stolen from Avsim and placed on another site and I found that a price was placed on my Freeware at that site, I agree with Scott. Somehow a way must be found to stop this madness. We created this addon software as a free gift to all to be downloaded from specific sites. We are trying to control how it's made avalible to all.Maybe if we charge for this and use a key to activate it we can control how it is distributed.Joe Watsonhttp://home.comcast.net/~raptor67/Joe_W/Joe_sig.jpg


Joe Watson

Lake Placid, Florida

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>files and so one. Im only a "painter" while i care for the>modelmaker's wishes i just give away the textures for all with>no restriction at all. In this way i've eliminated a great>source of irritating observations regarding my work. If>someone is stupid enough to by it, well i don't care, >Just my 2 cents>>H.WI can also highly recommend taking this approach. I used to care and geat all mad about stuff like this but then one day I just decided not to care anymore.....say it with me "I don't care what happens to the files after I upload them to AVSIM"....see how easy that was. The next day, my hair started growing back, my blood pressure went down and I started sleeping better :)Things we upload to AVSIM have little, if any, monetary value and certainly no one is going to get rich off of them. So now I just say either my work is for any non-commercial use, or is completely public domain with no restrictions at all. And life is good again :)If you want to support AVSIM, click on their banners or donate a few buck, or make sure you tell everyone that AVSIM is the best website for downloading files and it's free.Matt Fox

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