First impressions of X-Plane.... not great

[be77solo 125]

 

One thing that I do in XP, is to setup a controller (I actually have an old Playstation 2 control that works well for this) with nothing but view controls - panning, tilting, up & down, back and forth, side to side, with a button to jump back to the main cockpit view, and a button to instantly save a new main cockpit view. With it, I can either grab the controller and move around the cabin perfectly, or else switch to outside while on the ground and walk around just as if I were in a regular video game.  Terribly addictive, and no need for an 'avatar' is in P3D!

 

 

Now this is an interesting idea, thanks for passing it along, I'll have to tinker with setting it up when I have some free time.

[uwespeed 497]

Surprisingly, I don't read about a lot of people having  issues with the UI after they have used X-Plane for a little while (not saying it doesn't need improvement).

 

Ha !!!   That's indeed quite interesting - until, let's say, 2 years ago it was a "fact" that the UI is almost unusable. Now, there are more and more people taking the plunge and nobody complains about the UI - although it is unchanged since the release of XP10  .

[CFIJose 5,485]

Once I learned what settings to change, I stopped looking at the UI. :smile:

[Jimmy RFR 406]

I actually kind of like the UI.... true, it's not glossy and modern with big icons, such as the new DTG Flight School is showing, but it's simple and it does enable a *lot* of information and control over the simulator. It's just a matter of learning how to get to everything.

 

The new style UI, such as the 'Nearby Air Traffic Controllers' window, is in fact quite nice, in a late 90's Linux sort of way.  :smile:

[DavidP 1,408]

 

 

Flight model, well i have to presume you never been on a real aircraft as a pilot. You can not leave a Cessna for 3 hs untouched and it will keep flying straight ahead and leveled, this doesn't happen on real life at all. The aircraft dances around at all times and you must keep applying tiny corrections for keeping it smooth unless you are in a/p.

 

I think that the flight dynamics of a real aircraft are quite misunderstood. A Cessna, if trimmed properly (with the qualification of flying in calm air), will fly quite happily for reasonable amounts of time without pilot intervention. Sometimes it is made out by simmers like you are wrestling an anaconda. Cessna's in particular, are very, very benign aircraft.

 

The torque reaction in XPlane is incredibly unrealistic. A Cessna will not screw off the runway within seconds of applying full throttle, as depicted in XPlane - sad, but true. A typical Cessna will require a light touch of right rudder, that's all. Again, this is an effect that is often over-stated by simmers, perhaps for dramatic effect. Generally speaking, flying an aircraft is not hard, and if you had to wrestle an aircraft as it is sometimes perceived as, well, perhaps it is not a very good aircraft.

 

Yes, I am a real world CPL, Instructor and IFR (1,000 hours), so I think that I can comment.

[bonchie 2,305]

There was a bug where torque was getting doubled. I don't know if it's already been fixed or will be fixed in 10.50.

 

 

[Alpha Floor 237]

 

 

Generally speaking, flying an aircraft is not hard, and if you had to wrestle an aircraft as it is sometimes perceived as, well, perhaps it is not a very good aircraft.

 

That's a good point!

 

Aircraft handling characteristics are classified using the Cooper-Harper scale:

 

[strider1 575]

So I decided I'd try x-plane out to contrast it against P3D.  A couple things I just can't get used to, but maybe I can change/adjust somehow??

 

First is the view.  I feel like my face is up against the dash.  I can't see nearly enough of the cockpit and the view isn't very wide at all.  I did manage to figure out how to toggle mouse look to a button on my yolk so I sorted that much out.  

 

Second, the controls are so very touchy and the aircraft seems to yaw like a bandit on meth.  The flight model feels horribly unstable.  I've only tried the stock baron so far though.  And with that I can't sort out how to turn on the dang lights!!

 

Are there some pro tips to help me out.  I'd like to give x-plane an educated attempt and at least understand it well enough to make a decision about it.

 

 

Thanks!!!

 

You can use the Greater Than key (>) or Less Than key (<) to adjust your seat Forward and Backwards. The default planes are Garbage. You need a good Payware plane to test X-Plane. If you like GA planes I would recommend the Airfoilllab C172. Using the mouse to change your view is very intuitive once you get use to it. One hand on the Yolk to control the plane and one hand on the mouse to change the view ! In PD3 you have to press the space bar while simultaneously using the mouse, and I guess your suppose to use your tongue on the yolk to maintain directional control while changing views ! Talk about counterintuitive ! But than again PD3 flys on rails ! lol.... But like anything new in life, it takes some getting used TO.   

[LAdamson 240]

Flight model, well i have to presume you never been on a real aircraft as a pilot. You can not leave a Cessna for 3 hs untouched and it will keep flying straight ahead and leveled, this doesn't happen on real life at all. The aircraft dances around at all times and you must keep applying tiny corrections for keeping it smooth unless you are in a/p.

 

Ok, I'd like to discuss this a bit.  I too, flew many planes in real life, and built/owned a Van's RV6.  I do feel that that "lively" feeling, mentioned by a lot of X-Plane pilots is too lively, and sometimes un-realistic. Some simmers think that air is constantly moving a real airplane around. Side to side, yaw, up & down, etc.  When there is mild turbulence, we'll see the yoke or stick, constantly moving. However, it's actually  flight surfaces are moving, due to the turbulence, which are connected to the yoke/stick. The ailerons move, the yoke rotates, and the pilots hand moves, because it's holding on to the yoke. We, as pilots are not constantly fighting this turbulence. We just ride it out. Of course, if a wing does a good drop, then bring it back up.

 

I'll often see X-Planes yawing the nose, side to side. When I see that on the screen, I instinctively push both feet on the rudder pedal, because it's like dutch roll. In real life, the passengers in seats farther back, would really be hating this yawing action, which can be nauseating.  A plane such as this, would just be unstable, and needs a design correction, or yaw damper. 

 

Then of course, there was the torque issue, which is being corrected. This would give the simmer the impression, the us pilots rotate off the runway, holding an aileron correction, so the left wing tip doesn't skid along the runway.  Torque does have it's place.  We can actually feel the left wing pushing down towards the runway. But by rotation time, the wings lift have overcome the torque. Unless, it's a case of high power, low air speeds, and a roll over on the back, like a P-51 Mustang could do. 

 

Something else, I don't really enjoy, is a constant roll motion, which dips the wing right, then left, then right again, etc. I want to keep fighting it with the joystick. It's a pain!  Real life planes, even a touchy one like my RV, or the Pitts, isn't that hard to keep more stable. We can actually feel the air loads on the flight surfaces through the yoke/stick.  With a sim, the screen is just constantly moving, with no real sense of feel, except for the want to keep counteracting the roll.  I prefer my sim planes, too just fly smoother, unless I'm simulating a good storm. 

 

And as I've often said, when someone brings up the slogan of "flying on rails"................. because FSX/P3D is smoother by default, it's not bad at all. There are many times, in which even a small plane, will fly so smooth, that there will actually be a lack of moving, feeling wise. We often flew the RV around 200 mph, and the ground just slowly moved underneath. Calm as can be. This could even occur, when there was surface winds for the takeoff.

 

At the end of the day, I do like X-Plane. I do like FSX. I don't have P3D. I use some of the better known flight models for both sims.  The new Airfoil Labs 172 Cessna for X-Plane is a good model. I really like the A2A Cherokee for FSX (lots of Cherokee hours in the Warrior, Archer & retractable Arrow), as well as the RealAir Lancair Legacy (FSX). It reminds me more of the RV, than any sim model I've used. It's a comfortable & enjoyable sim model.  

[strider1 575]

I think that the flight dynamics of a real aircraft are quite misunderstood. A Cessna, if trimmed properly (with the qualification of flying in calm air), will fly quite happily for reasonable amounts of time without pilot intervention. Sometimes it is made out by simmers like you are wrestling an anaconda. Cessna's in particular, are very, very benign aircraft.

 

The torque reaction in XPlane is incredibly unrealistic. A Cessna will not screw off the runway within seconds of applying full throttle, as depicted in XPlane - sad, but true. A typical Cessna will require a light touch of right rudder, that's all. Again, this is an effect that is often over-stated by simmers, perhaps for dramatic effect. Generally speaking, flying an aircraft is not hard, and if you had to wrestle an aircraft as it is sometimes perceived as, well, perhaps it is not a very good aircraft.

 

Yes, I am a real world CPL, Instructor and IFR (1,000 hours), so I think that I can comment.

 

A reasonable amount of time would be what ? I only have a few hundred hours of real world flying, and ive never experienced a calm day where I can let go of the yolk for more 1-15 seconds before the plane would start to veer off to the left or right. Granted these are rental planes so they are not in tip top shape. The problem with Xplane is the spiraling slip stream model is broken !

[strider1 575]

Ok, I'd like to discuss this a bit.  I too, flew many planes in real life, and built/owned a Van's RV6.  I do feel that that "lively" feeling, mentioned by a lot of X-Plane pilots is too lively, and sometimes un-realistic. Some simmers think that air is constantly moving a real airplane around. Side to side, yaw, up & down, etc.  When there is mild turbulence, we'll see the yoke or stick, constantly moving. However, it's actually  flight surfaces are moving, due to the turbulence, which are connected to the yoke/stick. The ailerons move, the yoke rotates, and the pilots hand moves, because it's holding on to the yoke. We, as pilots are not constantly fighting this turbulence. We just ride it out. Of course, if a wing does a good drop, then bring it back up.

 

I'll often see X-Planes yawing the nose, side to side. When I see that on the screen, I instinctively push both feet on the rudder pedal, because it's like dutch roll. In real life, the passengers in seats farther back, would really be hating this yawing action, which can be nauseating.  A plane such as this, would just be unstable, and needs a design correction, or yaw damper. 

 

Then of course, there was the torque issue, which is being corrected. This would give the simmer the impression, the us pilots rotate off the runway, holding an aileron correction, so the left wing tip doesn't skid along the runway.  Torque does have it's place.  We can actually feel the left wing pushing down towards the runway. But by rotation time, the wings lift have overcome the torque. Unless, it's a case of high power, low air speeds, and a roll over on the back, like a P-51 Mustang could do. 

 

Something else, I don't really enjoy, is a constant roll motion, which dips the wing right, then left, then right again, etc. I want to keep fighting it with the joystick. It's a pain!  Real life planes, even a touchy one like my RV, or the Pitts, isn't that hard to keep more stable. We can actually feel the air loads on the flight surfaces through the yoke/stick.  With a sim, the screen is just constantly moving, with no real sense of feel, except for the want to keep counteracting the roll.  I prefer my sim planes, too just fly smoother, unless I'm simulating a good storm. 

 

And as I've often said, when someone brings up the slogan of "flying on rails"................. because FSX/P3D is smoother by default, it's not bad at all. There are many times, in which even a small plane, will fly so smooth, that there will actually be a lack of moving, feeling wise. We often flew the RV around 200 mph, and the ground just slowly moved underneath. Calm as can be. This could even occur, when there was surface winds for the takeoff.

 

At the end of the day, I do like X-Plane. I do like FSX. I don't have P3D. I use some of the better known flight models for both sims.  The new Airfoil Labs 172 Cessna for X-Plane is a good model. I really like the A2A Cherokee for FSX (lots of Cherokee hours in the Warrior, Archer & retractable Arrow), as well as the RealAir Lancair Legacy (FSX). It reminds me more of the RV, than any sim model I've used. It's a comfortable & enjoyable sim model.  

 

I don't fly the default planes but the Airfoillab has very little torque. It doesn't require any aileron input on a climb/departure. The torque is unrealistic when your first push the throttle in on the ground roll, but it corrects itself once it picks up speed. What kind of joystick are using ? 

[LAdamson 240]

A reasonable amount of time would be what ? I only have a few hundred hours of real world flying, and ive never experienced a calm day where I can let go of the yolk for more 1-15 seconds before the plane would start to veer off to the left or right. Granted these are rental planes so they are not in tip top shape. The problem with Xplane is the spiraling slip stream model is broken !

Your rentals must need a serous re-rigging!   :smile:   

 

In my rental days, I always preferred newer airplanes if possible.  I once ferried a Cessna 172 across a couple of states, after it's windscreen was destroyed by a bird. I went with a friend in his plane to pick up this one, after repair. It constantly yawed, and was a handful. Seriously out of rig.  Since I was around all of these higher performance experimental category planes for so many years,  perfection in rigging, was something I was highly familiar with. After an initial heavy right wing with the RV, due to a slightly different aileron trailing edge radius, the RV became a real joy to trim, and fly with a very light touch to the stick. If left alone, it would just change heading & altitude on it's own, but slowly. No fight, or constant attention. A non-pilot friend of mine, would fly it for hours, on our long cross countries.

 

Note: Saitek X-52 joystick (for the other post question)

[be77solo 125]

LAdamson nailed why I simply can't get into X-Plane 10 (and yes, I've got some good payware planes and plenty of time with it) and simply prefer the P3D platform.

 

Good post.

[leinsters 42]

I just deleted FSX and all the addon$ in favor of X-Plane. After doing the initial ground work and discovery, many of us have found no reason whatsoever to go back. But it does take time. It's kind of like FS2000 back in the day, finding all the cool stuff - that is quite often free! But to help answer your questions: 

 

1. Get X-Camera. You can use it free or make a donation to get the full version. Free will give you everything you could possibly need to make the ideal pilot view. But I suggest donating to the guy as it's far superior to EZCA. 

https://www.stickandrudderstudios.com/x-camera/

 

2. Default planes suck almost, but not quite, to the degree of FSX default planes. There are plenty of suggestions here on this thread, but I advise caution in what you choose to purchase. Carenado are flooding the market with their gorgeous model / dreadful flight dynamics addons, but there's a company called SimCoders bringing some of these planes up to A2A standards. (http://www.simcoders.com/reality-expansion-pack/overview). The AirFoilLabs C172 receives very high praise (http://www.airfoillabs.com/). And then there's IXEG, and the FF767 which are both exceptional. (Not to mention FlyJSim's 732!)... and the list goes on. Enjoy the journey. 

[LAdamson 240]

To the OP, dusk & night flying in X-Plane 10, is very much worth it!  Just fired up a dusk flight out of KSLC with the AirfoilLabs C172.  As it turns out, I started with an X-Plane form of real weather. It's certainly turbulent. And for a credit to AirFoil Labs, it's the first time I've flown this Cessna with an appreciable amount of turbulence.  The nose is shaking, there are the ups & downs, the gauges are jumping all over the place, but the whole effect is quite real!  I can just hold the stick, watch the action, but not have to constantly fight it!  Just as I said in my previous post..............we don't always fight turbulence, just ride it out. Very well done!!!

 

For a quick reply to the post preceeding this one, I've flown MSFS since the beginning, and downloaded demos of X-Plane somewhere around 1994. Own versions 8,9, & 10. None of this is new to me. I'll never be deleting FSX, as there is always reasons for it (unless I go to PD3). Orbx, RealAir, A2A, and all that stuff. IMO, unless someone has a real shortage of drive space, there is no reason for just one.  My system runs both sims with excellent fps ----- most of the time.