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Dovetail Games Presentation @ FlightSimCon 2016

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Dovetail say they will give us a new platform - not a new FSX, P3D or X-Plane. Do you understand the difference?  :smile:

 

They talk a good talk, so again, i will wait patiently to see if the proof is in the pudding.  I'm not going to argue specifics or semantics of building simulators, becuase I don't know the first thing on how to do it, but it seems like DTG wants to reinvent the wheel.  John V makes a valid point, to which that tech he speaks of is "migrating" itself into FSX and P3D, via FTX Central and that's a good thing.  I think we all want an engine that not only works, but is efficient and stable.  more power to DTG if they can pull it off so in the meantime, I'll stick with what I have right now.

Edited by n4gix
Please do NOT quote the entire post.
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Engage, research, inform and make your posts count! -Jim Morvay

Origin EON-17SLX - Under the hood: Intel Core i7 7700K at 4.2GHz (Base) 4.6GHz (overclock), nVidia GeForce GTX-1080 Pascal w/8gb vram, 32gb (2x16) Crucial 2400mhz RAM, 3840 x 2160 17.3" IPS w/G-SYNC, Samsung 950 EVO 256GB PCIe m.2 SSD (Primary), Samsung 850 EVO 500gb M.2 (Sim Drive), MS Windows 10 Professional 64-Bit

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This where i personally see the biggest issue.

 

Everything we have today was developed because FSX is incomplete and abandoned.

The need of add-ons was due to the imperfection of FSX or other Sim`s.

 

Now they rebuild it with knowledge that it will be unfinished and rely on others to complete it because they can`t  or don`t want to do because of time issues or missing knowledge.

I understand that they can`t build everything. But looks like they complete rely on add-on`s to make the sim run.

You see now in Flight School that they already gave everything away. Airports, Aircraft, Scenery and Missions were developed by external companies.

 

Looks like we will get an "updated" FSX that technically is advanced, but looks like the old one and you need to buy X add-ons to make it even playable.

You want weather? Buy weather add-on. Want aircraft? buy aircraft add.on. Scenery? buy scenery..............

 

I can`t understand why flightsimmers are willing to pay for every bit and piece that is fundamental.

You wouldn`t buy a Golf game where you have to buy  your golf course, glf club, caddy, weather ?

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he was previously with Codemasters

 

That's all you had to say. I've been down this road too may times with F1, TOCA and CMR.

 

[turns and runs]


Aaron Thacker

 

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They talk a good talk, so again, i will wait patiently to see if the proof is in the pudding.

 

Yes - Dovetail is currently very vague.
My understanding of what Martin (Dovetail) said earlier can of course be misreading. But Martin has said repeatedly - that those who expect a new simulator as FSX (with many aircraft and a updated visual beauty, etc.) - will be disappointed. Dovetail has both limited time and resources.
 
An analogy:
 
Microsoft is developing OS (platform) Windows 10 ---> and Adobe developing Photoshop.
 
Dovetail developing flight sim "OS" (platform) DTG FS ---> and A2A (and other) developing aircraft.
 
Therefore Dovetail said:
"Flight simulation would be nothing without all the hard work of third party developers, be them big companies or bedroom coders.
For us, releasing DTG Flight Simulator is just the beginning. All of the really hard works comes afterwards once you and developers get your hands on it
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I cannot for the life of me believe anyone would write the above. It's been common knowledge for several years that both L-M and DTG have licensed the rights to use the FSX source files... :unknw:

I didn't mean to wake you up LOL I may be wrong but I think the old flight school type stuff was borrowed from Rod someone another and either included in a release of FSX or was on a MS website. Been a long time ago. Either way it has nothing to do with the point of the post. 


Sam

Prepar3D V5.1/8086K@5.0/EVGA 1080TI SC Black/850W PSU/Windows 10/40" 4K Samsung Monitor@3840x2160/ASP3D/ASCA/ORBX/ChasePlane/General Aviation/Flight1 Mustang/

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Dovetail: "I need to make this very clear, our focus for Flight Sim first and foremost is building the game engine that runs the sim. .... if the actually game engine is not solid then you are just building on bad foundations. Our focus is on getting the underlying game engine to where we want to be first."

 
Exactly. Make sure the foundation is solid. 

 

Sounds like a good plan. Unfortunately, they had an opportunity to build confidence in the project by showing some major advancement in the foundation with Flight School. Whether aimed at the hardcore sim community or not, they had to know it would be seen as a tech demo and proof of concept. Instead they whiffed, with low-res textures, terrain pop-in, and blurries on the horizon. Not to mention some bizarre color palettes and cloud modeling. Yeah, maybe those last two can be "fixed" with 3rd party add-ons, but first impressions matter. 

 

Their #1 job right now (IMO) is showing something that doesn't look like a 10-year old sim, because their two main competitors LM and LR are not standing still, and Aerofly FS 2 may eventually turn into something more developed. I'm still hoping they can pull this off, but it's a little hard to keep the enthusiasm up until they show us something beyond Flight School.

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X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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That's all you had to say. I've been down this road too may times with F1, TOCA and CMR.

 

[turns and runs]

 

Did you tried the new DiRT Rally from Codemasters?

It`s the best Rally racing game up to date if not the best motorsports game until now.

They made it a hard Rally simulation and it is a bestseller, not only to Rally fans.

Finally they achieved now for the Rally Sims what we are waiting for FlightSims since FSX.

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Did you tried the new DiRT Rally from Codemasters?

 

Certainly yes. I bought Early Access the day it was released. And yes it is fantastic. I was more referring to the frustrating Dirt years.

 

Credit where credit is due... Codies restored my faith in their ability to produce a rally game.

 

However I do sense that I will be similarly frustrated with DTG offerings to flight simulation. Hope they prove me wrong.


Aaron Thacker

 

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Looks like we will get an "updated" FSX that technically is advanced, but looks like the old one and you need to buy X add-ons to make it even playable.

You want weather? Buy weather add-on. Want aircraft? buy aircraft add.on. Scenery? buy scenery..............

 

Have you ever asked yourself how much would a simulator including all such advanced features in the base package cost?

For your information: FSX vanilla is playable and so is P3D vanilla. You have lot of base aircraft models, base weather, base ATC, base AI traffic, base airports, base sceneries. Now, if you want aircraft with in-depth models, AIRAC with upgraded SIDs, STARs and navaids, ATC pretty close to real world, photoscenery terrain, highly detailed airports, you simply pay for it. Add-ons, literally.

 

DCS 1.5 is free, but, if you want advanced models, you pay for them. If you want Nevada, you pay $ 50. Aerofly 2 is being offered as a standalone product, but many features will be probably missing even in the final version. It is not unlikely that additional features will be available in the future, but will be optional (read: you will have to pay for them.).

 

Flight simulation is not different than any other business. It relies on the money of the community to grow and expand. No matter which your simulator is, no matter if 32 or 64 bit, this is not a cheap hobby.

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I know, but they can throw in a retarded piece of software lacking basic functions and content because the community is used to it?

I don`t think so.

Add-Ons  should provide additional features and content, not basic ones.

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I know, but they can throw in a retarded piece of software lacking basic functions and content because the community is used to it?

I don`t think so.

Add-Ons  should provide additional features and content, not basic ones.

Which are the basic functions that they are supposed not to throw in? How do you know it?

 

Anyway, for your and others' information, an addon for Dovetail Flight School already exists. Yes, I said School, not Simulator. I will not provide any link, just google "TABURET - DTG FLIGHT SCHOOL EUROPE VECTORS".

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Dovetail: "We are building a platform which can be continually expanded. We view it almost like an OS. The key word here is "platform."

 

This is only a good thing if the underlying "platform" isn't intentionally crippled or under-featured so as to absolutely require the purchase of additional addons (or, lets use the term that Dovetail is going to be using, DLC) from the very start.  I'd have more faith here if it wasn't for the fact that Dovetail is already extremely experienced with DLC business models.

 

With FSX, after all, the vast majority of what we now consider to be essential addons were developed to improve and expand the original simulator over the course of many years as computers, technology and developer skill progressed, not because the original simulator was lacking any semblance of those features in the first place.

 

I would love to be wrong, and I did support DTG with a purchase (uninstalled as of yet) of Flight School in hopes that something good will come down the road.  But I would largely suspect that there will be very little in significant progress when the full simulator is released from what we have right now.

 

(Also, I'm not sure I'm all that excited to read John V.'s comments regarding the influence and input that they've had on the new platform.)


Jim Stewart

Platforms: X-Plane 11 | P3Dv4 | DCS
System: i7-6700K o/c @ 4.4GHz | EVGA GTX 980ti | 32GB RAM | BenQ 32" @ 2560x1440 | Oculus Rift | W10 Pro

Other Sim Interests: Assetto Corsa, rFactor 2, Dirt Rally, Euro Truck Simulator 2, American Truck Simulator

 

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LOL 70% eh?? Is that a solid number from a survey that you are thinking about doing some time in the future? I never saw thoses results published and I have been around since Commador 64 and Sub Logic days...just like the one that was on display at the Simcon. I don't think it is all that logical to use a made up number to prove how logical you are. So when you do decide to do the survey sometime in the future put me down for yes....I has ever flown a real plane  (maybe you meant to say "have never") Logicaly speaking of course!!

 

Oh you never saw the survey?  For someone around for such a long time, you seem quite out of touch. Here is where I got that "made up number" from: 

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/458969-2014-demographic-results-released/?p=3146738

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Let me guess.... you want 64bit. 

Josh Daniels-Johannson

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Oh you never saw the survey?  For someone around for such a long time, you seem quite out of touch. Here is where I got that "made up number" from: 

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/458969-2014-demographic-results-released/?p=3146738

 

If Avsim ever updates that survey, I hope they expand the categories to include people involved in aviation who might know something about it, but aren't pilots. Like engineers, ATC personnel, etc. A binary "pilot or not" tends to lump everyone who isn't into a category that presumes less knowledge about aviation.

 

I've never flown a plane. But I'm retired from a background as an editorial and advertising photographer, who spent a lot of years hiring light planes and helicopters for airphotos. I had to learn enough to know what I could ask a pilot to do, to get the shot. I've spent enough hours in the right-hand seat with the door off, to remember what it looked like and felt like. Even managed to survive a ditching at sea in an Otter, as part of the job.

 

I think there are many folks like me out there that pursued flight sims as a hobby related to jobs like that, even though we never had our hand on the stick.

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X-Plane and Microsoft Flight Simulator on Windows 10 
i7 6700 4.0 GHz, 32 GB RAM, GTX 1660 ti, 1920x1200 monitor

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