AVSIM and Piracy Clearing House?

[Guest danowat]

I would be interested in knowing how piracy accusations are going to be proven?.What happens if someone is wrongly accused of piracy? what then?.How is this "service" going to validate any claims of piracy?Dan.

[Brian Doney 127]

So AVSIM is going to do what the RIAA and MPAA have been unable to do ? Sure, we've seen stories of major "busts" by the FBI, warez sites taken down, etc. P2P networks are a whole 'nother kettle of fish. In this case, the RIAA etc., have targeted the software used to share itself, as there is no "one person or group" to go after. They have failed at every step, even being denied the time of day by our own Supreme Court. So what exactly will be different here ?

[btacon 1,788]

Agreed.Piracy is wrong. Piracy happens. I'll hold any judgment of this scheme, until we see some fruits of its labors. Until then, I'll just repeat my agreement that RIAA and MPAA have demonstrated clearly the folly of taking this fight to the individual.Cheers,bt

[Guest danowat]

I personally believe that it will be a "name and shame" deal, where there will not be any legal dealings, but the "threat" of being outed as a "pirate" to the community.This could open a huge can of worms.Dan.

[Brian Doney 127]

I'll put it this way:I'm honestly sick and tired of hearing about this issue, at least in these terms. Piracy happens, and netiher this scheme nor any other will do ANYTHING to help curb it unless the law changes. Period.Piracy happens in all realms of software development, and, as we all know, music is probably the most shared/pirated of anything. Most organizations that are trying to stop piracy realize that the only way it will be possible is through legislation, without which, only the most flagrant offenders can be stopped. My point ? If you're gonna develop software, you need to accept that FOR NOW, piracy is a given. You want to waste your time with anti-piracy schemes, keys etc., go right ahead if it makes you feel better. It will fail, and when it does, I don't want to hear about how much time, money, etc., it cost you, because it is YOU that chooses to fight an unwinnable battle. Charging higher prices to paying customers, elaborate schemes that leave said customers quite frustrated, or even at times without the product they paid for, are not "neccessary evils" in the battle against piracy. It's bad business practice.

[MKaprocki 3]

I agree with Brian here. As a former gauge programmer for a payware company (and current freeware programmer), I've had my stuff pirated. Does it bother me? No, it doesn't. Piracy happens and there is nothing we can do about it. I accepted that fact when I made my gauges. I expected it to happen, and I didn't care. The main reason is that the people who download it would not have bought it anyways. The only reason this whole piracy thing is such a big deal is because people do not seem to realize that there's nothing we can do about it and that it really doesn't matter. Hearing of things like the FSD issue makes me sick of the FS community as a whole. "It raises prices", "increases development times", and "makes for annoying copy protection" are all horrible excuses by other devlopers who cannot accept that their software will be pirated.Matt KaprockiPayware Devloper

[Guest saudi_777]

"I mean Yeah, sure an email from a developer could scare the casual pirate into not doing it ever again but this type of thing wont stop the dedicated pirates, the ones hiding behind all those anonymous proxy servers based in the middle east somewhere."Andrew,Please don't single out the Middle East as THE major hotspot for software piracy, because I for one clearly know that it isn't the only hotspot for software piracy, and in fact I'm pretty sure that it's not the most serious of the software piracy hotspots around the world. I don't know whether you're ignoring the software piracy that occurs in the USA, Europe & Southeast Asia (China & Taiwan are good examples), but for one thing, the Middle East is NOT the only hotspot for software piracy in the world.As for my 2 cents in this topic, I really think that Avsim should only stick to trying to explain in detail to the members of the flight simulation community the harsh effects of software piracy on payware FS developers, because this initiative will definitely not stamp out every form of software piracy in the FS community, and it can also be a chance for some people to press false charges against other innocent people. I'm honestly not saying this as a rant against Avsim, I'm just saying my personal opinion with all due respect to the Avsim staff's opinion on this matter. I also fully agree with what Brian J. Doney and Matt Kaprocki said, in other words, as long as there's something called the internet in this world, then software piracy WILL HAPPEN. It's a fact that we all have to live with.In short, this initiative will not be fully effective, and it will not be 100% trouble free. Period.Cheers,

[Azapata87 173]

Hello Asim,I did not mean it that way, and should have mentioned another country such as Russia."This type of thing wont stop the dedicated pirates, the ones hiding behind all those anonymous proxy servers based in the Middle East somewhere" What I meant was that some pirates likely use proxy servers, which are servers that they connect to and hide their real IP so if someone were to do a "WHOIS" on their ip they would see that it is a server in the Middle East or Russia or wherever the server is located and they would not see the software pirate's real IP or ISP. I'm not saying they are actually doing the pirating in the Middle East at all. There are many proxy servers in the U.S and just about every other country but people who really want to stay "anonymous" choose servers in different countries preferably ones that won't keep logs of what they do online so they can't be traced. I would go into more detail but this thread isn

[Guest saudi_777]

Hi Andrew,Thanks for your thorough explanation and your apology, as I now fully understand what you meant with your comment. By the way, I never was really angry at you nor did I have any hard feelings because of you, I just wanted to reply with my opinion about your comment, which I now fully understand. So no hard feelings, mate! :-waveI guess that the fact that these pirates choose servers in different countries to evade capture from any authorities just goes to show how determined these pirates are! :DCheers,

[Guest glnflwrs]

Well, I have thought quite a bit on this subject, read all the posts to this and other threads, and have come to the following personal opinion on this matter.1) Murder and rape are crimes and no matter what we do we will never succeed in stopping all rapes and murders. But do we give up on enforcing the laws? Kind of a radical comparison, but we can not just give in and give up the enforcement of copyright protection because we believe we can never stop the violations. Punishment is the end, not the means.2) AVSIM has not asked anyone to turn in individuals or websites at all. They have simply implemented a method by which anyone who believes they have valid info can submit it to someone who knows what to do with it.3) This is no more Orwellian or Big Brotherish than the WeTip hotlines or the neighborhood police storefront or, for that matter, neighborhood watch. It is neighbor looking out for neighbor.4) We, as valid users of the add-on software and, in some cases, acquaintances of the developers, should be willing, no enthusiastic about anything we can do to better their situation, and, thereby, better our own. After all, we are all obsessed with this MSFS thingy. Right?5) Remember, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you. What??? Uhhhh.... Well,,, that's not,,, never mind.6) Give it a chance. Trust Tom Allensworth's judgement and support his decision. Has he ever been catastrophically wrong? Well,, Uhhhh... maybe,,, No, never. We AVSIM devotees owe it to AVSIM to voice our opinions and then sit back and watch. Might work better than even Tom imagined, might SNAFU totally. Wait and see.Glenn"If God would have wanted man to fly He would have given him more money"

[LOT737 6]

First; I never used/downloaded any illegal addons.I have one question.I'm 18 and I dont have credid card yet. My brother is using his credid card to pay for the addons. I'm using them most of the time, my brother is simming very rarely. So during registration/activation etc. I'm entering his name, and here on the message board you can see different name. Sometimes he want to ask something on some forums, and he's using my username. So it's kind a complicated but all legal, and we're using one PC for FS. So, for example; Someone my find the different names, etc. interesting, and he will report me. Will you contact me first? so I can clear everything? I'm asking because now anyone can report anyone because it looks to him that something is wrong:-boom

[Azapata87 173]

I would not worry about it, Chances are if you get reported nothing is going to be done about it anyway. And if you ever get an email from a developer just explain it to them. Most should be understanding and if they arent too bad for them I suppose. It should be alright, you're not doing anything illegal and I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to report you without knowing the full story ;-).Andrew

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

>I'll put it this way:>>I'm honestly sick and tired of hearing about this issue, at>least in these terms. Piracy happens, and netiher this scheme>nor any other will do ANYTHING to help curb it unless the law>changes. Period.>>Piracy happens in all realms of software development, and, as>we all know, music is probably the most shared/pirated of>anything. Most organizations that are trying to stop piracy>realize that the only way it will be possible is through>legislation, without which, only the most flagrant offenders>can be stopped. >>My point ? If you're gonna develop software, you need to>accept that FOR NOW, piracy is a given. You want to waste your>time with anti-piracy schemes, keys etc., go right ahead if it>makes you feel better. It will fail, and when it does, I don't>want to hear about how much time, money, etc., it cost you,>because it is YOU that chooses to fight an unwinnable battle.>>>Charging higher prices to paying customers, elaborate schemes>that leave said customers quite frustrated, or even at times>without the product they paid for, are not "neccessary evils">in the battle against piracy. It's bad business practice.Ok, here is how i look at it.Piracy is a terrible thing among the flight sim community and to the developers such as PMDG, Flight1, etc.. etc..But i agree with brian on this one, such excuses as "it raises prices" is bs. Do developers such as PMDG have to go and purchase the wheels and tires, and strobe lights for each of the 737's they have sold? no they do not. It is a group of developers that create a aircraft for the FS community that they expect a price to be put on. ( i am not trying to single out a developer just using one as a example ) All this is, is a aircraft that has been designed on a computer. It doesnt require that the developer purchases avionics, landing lights, nuts and bolts or what ever before they can allow a simmer to purchase their product. Is piracy wrong? yes. Does it cause any one to loose their arm, or leg? no it doesnt. I am not a payware customer for 1, there are plenty or wonderfull freeware that should be payware but arent, 2, i dont have a credit card because of the fact i am under 18. I am not a flight simmer that pirates, i am just one that wants my opinion to be heard. Payware a/c are designed on a computer and are then put out for a simmer to purchase the product. When a un-honest simmer pirates (for example) the cap. sim 727, yes, the developers are angry and in some cases, bothered. But they did just have a plane taken from them for free that they request money for, but no, they (in my opinion) did not loose money. Piracy of aircraft for FS is different than stealing a brand new mercedes S500. In that case, mercedes lost money for the fact that they had to purchase all the electronics, materials for the interior, light bulbs for break/headlights so on and so forth. But compared to the piracy of a aircraft, the designer did not recieve the money they want for their time. They did not have to buy products for every single aircraft they sold. They purchased FSDS or soemthing similar and put their time into making the plane. A developer creates the aircraft with a program they purchased, spent time on it, then put it up for download by purchase. The only material they developer purchased was the program used to make the plane, and the computer. They dont loose money each time a simmer pirates their software. I am so confused on why the fact that people take this so serious as opposed to having a part of your body cut off. The plane was created, and then it finished unless a patch or update is released. What brian said, i know people pirate my software, but it doesnt bother me cause 1, it will happen, 2, i dont put labor into every single guage downloaded, just 1 that people recieve by download. If PMDG charges o so much for their 737, and they bring in around $5000 in sales, thats great. When some one pirates their software, they are angry that they did not recieve money for that pirated plane. They did not loose $50 because of the fact that they did not have to redesign every single plane before it can be downloaded.I am not a pirate or what so ever, i just am trying to put my idea in the pot. I did not try to single any designer out in this thread, just used a few as example. Nor was i trying to make any one more aggrivated what so ever, just putting my idea in.=============================Chase BMSN: Chaseme55@msn.com