Loving P2A...but...No High Airway designators in "Hi" map mode and More

[hesynergy 67]

Dave...finished my first complete flight....wife sleeping ....so I used "Sayit" during the last part....grin...nice edition....I thoroughly enjoyed the;

1.  Flight planning including SIDS and STARS additions....see notes

 

 

 

2.Voice recognition part, and I hope this will be a VoxATC / Aivlasoft EFB replacement..

 

here are some notes and findings

3:12 AM 7/1/2016

P2A_200 User Guide.pdf

Page 17 Can't insert departure AP KSFO as Departure with right click

-was able to load KLAX as Destination with right click

Page 21 entered Cruise Alt of 180 Showed FL 190 *PIC*

Page 22 had to click validate after changing GS and Dscnt Rate under 

7:04 AM 7/1/2016

Clicked autopilot...was there before, but nothing happens.

-will P2A_200 allow exiting and reloading with same flight plan and pick up where I am in space?

6:59 PM 7/2/2016

working off

noticed "RZS so go look for a SID that will get us to RZS lets assume we are taking off from RWY 25R..." 

-why are we assuming 25R?

-why RZS?

--Flight aware route for Delta 2774 on 2 July route is VTU6 RZS J501 PEGRS STOKD SERFR SERFR2

-you have listed "ALL" as under RUNWAY, yet choosing ALL  shows nothing...Sorry for the comparison, but you ARE competing with others....I shall not apologize further.

-in Flight Sim Commander....yes, I know it only has planning, and some automatic linkages to the Sim Controls...But if you choose ALL you SEE all SIDS for quick choices.  I dont know how the dispatcher chooses routes, but if we have to do it, we need an easier way to VISUALIZE

- at 1:34 in, you look for a transition and choose RZS...why when a more direct "trasnsition" appears to be AVE

-Moving on...At 2:22, you are looking for what we can do for the an Airway that will lead into a STAR into KSFO and you "click" on RZS...see P2ATC Youtube 9ZLDvmaAeUI 2M29S no airway symbols or IDs.jpg

 

** NOTE: Clicking on RZS tag in Flight plan window doesnt work UNLESS you actually click on the RZS VOR SYMBOL...clicking on the tag RZS between SCHORR and KSFO yields no response...suggest "hotspot with hand indicationg that ONLY the VOR symbol can be clicked...OR....allow the entire RZS Tag to be clickable"

-"click" on RZS...see P2ATC Youtube 9ZLDvmaAeUI 2M29S no airway symbols or IDs.jpg ...Airways show up but NOT Airway assignments.

 IN STAR setup screen,  

 1.if any previous entry, Unload  Does NOT UNLOAD the previously loaded star and;

 2. in YT Tutorial (YTT) you show many Transition choices( the YTT is supposed to be for v2...I am running V2.0.2.3MFD

 -I show ONLY BSR for Transition choices)See NoTransitionChoicesButBSR-noBSR-RW28L arrival as shown in YTT.jpg

3:16 AM 7/4/2016

cant choose ATC Chatter Path

as the title says...No High Airway designators in "Hi" map mode

 

 

Thanks for the grins ...5 days left on the trial!

 

Chas

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 864]

Chas,

Thanks  for all the detail.  I am flying a little airplane back to Texas over the next several days and won't have time to respond to all of the comments.

On the Hi airway designators, did you try zooming in?  The designators are hidden when you zoom out so the map is not cluttered beyond recognition.

 

Thanks again for the comments,

Dave

[hesynergy 67]

Dave,

 

The following

 

7:43 AM 7/6/2016 ...not sure how many days I have left on the Beta..

 

KLOZ-KPDK Flight following...

 

I tried to take off from 1A6...middlesboro Bell County Airport as my departure, but P2A response was Could not be found in the database...so I opted for nearby KLOZ, Corbin, KY.

 

-~TBM Six Charlie Hotel inbound at Eight Thousand feet request ILS Approach to runway Two One Left

filed in the air 80 miles out of PDKTBM

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Readback Correct. Contact us for IFR Release when you are number one for departure.

-they think I am on the ground

refiled

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Readback Correct. Contact us for IFR Release when you are number one for departure.

-TBM Six Charlie Hotel Altimeter is Three Zero One Two at ATLANTA DEKALB PEACHTREEContact Tower on One Two Seven Point Two, enjoy your evening

~Cleared for the ILS approach to Runway Two One Left TBM Six Charlie Hotel

~ Altimeter is Three Zero One Two at ATLANTA DEKALB PEACHTREE Tower on One Two Seven Point Two TBM Six Charlie Hotel

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel on final for full stop

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel on final for full stop

TBM Six Charlie Hotel on Final for Full Stop;

State Change to: ClearedToLand

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Whinds are Two Two Zero at Five knots Cleared to Land Runway Two One Left Squawk Six Five Five Two

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel right downwind runway Two One Left

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel right downwind runway Two One Left

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Right Downwind Runway Two One Left;

TBM Six Charlie Hotel The pattern direction is LEFT

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel on left downwind runway Two One Left

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel right downwind runway Two One Left

~TBM Six Charlie Hotel on left downwind runway Two One Left

TBM Six Charlie Hotel on Left Downwind Runway Two One Left;

State Change to: LandingPattern

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Call turning final for Runway Two One Left

State Change to: ClearedToLand

TBM Six Charlie Hotel Whinds are Two Two Zero at Five knots Cleared to Land Runway Two One Left

~Cleared to land runway Two One Left TBM Six Charlie Hotel

Cleared to Land Runway Two One Left TBM Six Charlie Hotel;

-------------------------

 

still on

TWR freq...down and stopped between runways trying to report clear of RWY 21L, but cant find avaiable REPORT for "Clear of runway on KPDK Twr Freq 127.2"

see Pix

8:39 AM 7/6/2016

Really fun flight through real time weather provided by OpusFSI.

 

I understand that you are going through a ton of data, but I gotta say that at times, responses are almost too slow for real time flying....is there any way you can optimize your compiler...or...do some really good indexing of your tables?...It needs to be snappy...and Dave, I want so badly for it to FOR you, because you have all the right elements....and with some minor tweaks, you are there for FINAL Beta...

 

Regards....going to bed...

 

Chas

[Dave-Pilot2ATC 864]

Chas,

Thanks for the additional comments.  I'm stuck in Pennsylvania waiting for parts for the airplane, so I can't get back to programming yet.

The database has a "K" at the beginning of all airports in the US, so 1A6 should be found when you enter K1A6.

Generally, P2A assumes you are on the ground if you file a flight plan using the File button.  Once airborne, you can request flight following from one airport to another and P2A will create a flight plan for you if you didn't file one. 

When you landed, on tower frequency there is a "Clear of Active" report phrase you can use. 

 

I'm not sure exactly what delays you are experiencing.  The ones that are normally long in coming are complex clearances and taxi instructions, especially at large airports.  Also, if you request a change in a route or vectors to an approach, the program has to figure out the minimum safe altitudes and therefore may take a while to come back.  Some of these operations take place across the internet and can be affected by the speed of the internet connection or even a temporary outage. 

 

I'll PM you with how to find the log file that might help me see if something is going wrong.

 

Thanks again,

Dave

[hesynergy 67]

Chas,

Thanks for the additional comments. I'm stuck in Pennsylvania ...

 

1.The database has a "K" at the beginning of all airports in the US, so 1A6 should be found when you enter K1A6....

 

2. Generally, P2A assumes you are on the ground if you file a flight plan using the File button. ...

 

3. When you landed, on tower frequency there is a "Clear of Active" report phrase you can use.

 

4. I'm not sure exactly what delays you are experiencing. ...Some of these operations take place across the internet and can be affected by the speed of the internet connection or even a temporary outage. ...Thanks again,

Dave

1. Gotcha!

 

2. Does that mean that I can't file in the air from a flight following posture? Or from a non-"followed" VFR flight?

 

3.I looked for it the second I pulled off the runway and could not find any "clear..." Report Options Verbiage. I checked once again when I passed over the hold point... waiting on the tower frequency for several moments, hit the "?", hoping that might trigger a new set of report options...but when it was obvious I had none, I switched to Ground and terminated the flight without taxi-ing to the ramp....

 

Finally, I would have expected tower to say something like, "TBM146CH , turn off (left or right) at first taxiway"...thus acknowledging my having successfully landed on the assigned runway. I don't remember hearing that, nor did the command from TWR appear in the dialog. I'll include the dialog from the next flight.

 

 

4....good to know that you're accessing the cloud for updated information!

 

Thanks,

 

Chas

[vr1 0]

 

 

3.I looked for it the second I pulled off the runway and could not find any "clear..." Report Options Verbiage. I checked once again when I passed over the hold point... waiting on the tower frequency for several moments, hit the "?", hoping that might trigger a new set of report options...but when it was obvious I had none, I switched to Ground and terminated the flight without taxi-ing to the ramp....

Finally, I would have expected tower to say something like, "TBM146CH , turn off (left or right) at first taxiway"...thus acknowledging my having successfully landed on the assigned runway. I don't remember hearing that, nor did the command from TWR appear in the dialog. I'll include the dialog from the next flight.

 

 

Hi Chas,

 

normally P2A triggers the successful landing and then you will get the ATC instruction "exit runway when able". Additionally you will find in the transmission area the suggested response "~ clear of active".  This response appears in this situation automatically. It isn't an item from the SayIt report options (no item from the drop down menue). After you vacated the runway on an exit of your choice you only need to press the "SayIt" button to transmit.

 

But sometimes P2A doesn't trigger the landing. It's really seldom. In this case ask on the tower frequency for taxi instructions (to ramp/gate/refuel ...) and tower will you handover to ground.

 

If you need a specific gate/ramp you must select it from the Airport info-dialog before you request the taxi instructions.

 

 

Helge

[hesynergy 67]

Hi Chas,

 

normally P2A triggers the successful landing and then you will get the ATC instruction "exit runway when able". ...

 

But sometimes P2A doesn't trigger the landing. It's really seldom. In this case ask on the tower frequency for taxi instructions (to ramp/gate/refuel ...) and tower will you handover to ground...

 

Helge

Thanks Helge

 

Chas

[hesynergy 67]

 2:20 AM 7/8/2016 Turbine Duke Norris lake looking for touch and go work nearby

 loaded P2ATC

 Lonnnnng load No FPL

 over Norris Lake TN

 P2A CRASHED WHEN TRYING to do Touch and Goes at KTYS...tried with and without KTYS selected as WPT.

 restarted P2A selected KTYS as dep and arr airport...SAVED 

 same crash even when saved with a dest AP....thought I was saving pix with "V"....nada under my P3dv3 Pictures folder....

...sorry

Unhandled exception from last night....Sceen grab from Hesynergy YT channel..around 42:45

Chas

[vr1 0]

Hi Chas,

 

you are switched the frequency before you responded the frequency change. That causes the unhandled exeption because furthermore the assigned frequency was 124.42 instead your input 124.2. This frequency wasn't active as you like to confirm the handover.

 

 

As I read the posting #3 there are some obscurities. Why you entering the traffic pattern (VFR) after you are cleared for the ILS approach (IFR)?

Why you are reported "on final" but later you were only in the pattern?

You only copied the transmissions, and so I have no clue about the times between the reports ... but I'm snoopy and decided to watch the video to your last posting. Oh boy!

 

 

No offense, but here some more notes to your video:

 

Your transponder in P2A (right top corner) is the whole time OFF.

 

It's not a good idea to staying on runway during flight preparation. That's the reason for the you confusing taxi instruction. You are on RWY 08R and have to go to RWY 26L. Thats the same runway but the opposite end. Ground tried to guide you off runway (via G instead of GR!), crossing the parallel runway to the parallel taxiway (J) to taxi to holding point 26L. Due to both RWY's 26 are active you have to handover to TWR to ask for crossing; but you never asked.

Finally you requested take-off clearance from midfield intersection D instead of M without taxi clearance to D.

 

On minutes 25-29 you are permanently instructed to switch to ATC Center on 128.22. You entered the numbers in the keypad but didn't finished your input with the <OK> button so you are still on 124.22 (EGKK TWR) as you are tried to initiiate contact to Center and reported your current altitude.

 

May I ask, why are you planning a flight with SID when you are "unable" to program the waypoints in your cockpit instruments?

And why are you starting to program the FMS (Garmin) after take-off rather on ground during flight preparation?

That would have avoid most of the mistakes/errors/confusion during your flight.

 

But so ...

 

at 27:36 you are off course and decided to skip 2/3 of the assigned SID and turned direct BOGNA without request/clearance from ATC?

 

At 30:46 you finally loaded the departure route in your Garmin; but thats too late and causes the next mistake. In AP/NAV-mode the airplane suddenly turns back to the first SID waypoint but you already passed that point 5 minutes before. 

 

Due to this BOGNA is doubled programmed on your Garmin. #1 manually added waypoint and #2 as part of the SID. The SID ends with the HARDY transition and after that your FMS will fly back to the before manually added waypoint BOGNA again. Thats the screen on 33:15/33:32.

But to met your ATC fightplan the next waypoint after HARDY must be BIBAX (STAR entry BIBA7W).

 

At 34:00 you are starting to program the filed STAR by manually adding the whole waypoints to your Garmin flightplan instead of using the "procedure" function.

Furthermore: at this time ATC didn't assigned that STAR! You probably running into troubel when ATC assigns a different STAR or RWY (for exampel under changed wind direction).

 

At 34:35 you've got the next "off course" correction from ATC and you are looking at your instruments but didn't realized the missing waypoint HARDY between BOGNA and BIBAX on your FMS. So you never can return to the "right  course" or NAV-mode.

At 35:00 you're ignoring the ATC instruction HDG 100 to return to course again and switching to NAV-mode but still didn't realize that your FMS route shows HARDY>BOGNA as active leg and then BIBAX instead BOGNA>HARDY>BIBAX. ... and the airplane again turns back to the wrong direction ...

Until 35:40 Heureka! Light at the end of the tunnel ;-)

 

 

After you messed up the handover at 42:44, you are trying to recover ATC contact without success until you are closed P2A at 49:04. To recover such situation you must switch back to the old ATC frequency (128.22), response the handover and after that you can change to the new frequency.

 

At 55:27 you are climbing without clearance to  8300 ft - thats not a FL and you are still on baro 30.11 instead of 29.92 (above TA France 5000 ft).

 

At 1:02:00 you are proceeding direct to MOPAR (STAR waypoint) without clearance. You were instead instructed direct BIBAX as STAR entry to EXPECT the clearance for the STAR. BIBAX was your clearance LIMIT but you didn't follow. So after you instructed you never reached BIBAX. Instead you are flying cross country, deleted MOPAR from your FMS flightplan and now GARMIN gives you vectors (HDG 156) to the ILS FAF (Final Approach Fix) but you never cleared for the STAR rather the approach.

 

Also you are on a controlled flight and decided to descent at 1:04:00 with v/s 1000 fpm at your own decision and later to A1900 ft without QNH.

 

At 1:11:00 you are ~4 NM inbound LFPG with field inside but without further clearance and wonder why ...  and made a initial contact to 120.70 --- thats the EGMD App (Lydd/UK) frequency but you are over Paris.

 

Beside the clearances ... at 1:12:11 you are offside the glide because you never intercepted the localizer/glide path and you didn't engage the AP/APPR. So the final approach isn't stabilized and you decided at 1:14:31 to "go around" ... but still with no contact to Charles de Gaulle TWR and with no report AND with a 180 degrees left turn  ~ so now you are opposite traffic for following aircrafts ~ instead of flying the published missed approach.

 

 

Difficult to find words. May I ask or better have you ever ask yourself why you use an ATC-simulation when you didn't follow the instructions and fly on your own?

 

Again ... No offense.

 

Blue sky

Helge

[hesynergy 67]

Hi Chas,

 

you are switched the frequency before you responded the frequency change. That causes the unhandled exeption because furthermore the assigned frequency was 124.42 instead your input 124.2. This frequency wasn't active as you like to confirm the handover.

...

 

 

Difficult to find words. May I ask or better have you ever ask yourself why you use an ATC-simulation when you didn't follow the instructions and fly on your own?

 

Again ... No offense.

 

Blue sky

Helge

Helge!.... I am astounded at the dedication with which you addressed the flight video!!!

 

 

Rest assured I will lend the due diligence demanded by your detailed and voluminous response, though I may not individually address them all, nor try to defend my actions.

 

Suffice it to say I took the actions I did because of ;

 

1. My student level of understanding P2A.

2. Frustration at the reality of the above in an unpaused real-time environment and;

- my wife was sleeping less than ten feet away, not wishing to awaken her, I could not speak loudly enough to document my responses and actions...and you and all viewers could not hear them.

-perhaps I will add a voice-over to augment the video.

3. Took the actions I did as compensatory, as if in real life...principals of Aviate, Navigate,Communicate,...again based upon #1.

4. Thoroughly enjoyed the challenge/frustration...and wanted to continue, my gaffs, errors and goofs for all to see...with hope that someone of your caliber would show me the errors of my ways.

 

Nonetheless properly design programs have error trapping to avoid raw "exception messages"

 

I think it is incredible that Dave has written such a complete and exceptionally useful program… But in the process of beta testing one is going to find flaws like this and I am privileged to be part of the beta group. 

 

Thank you so much for your dedication.  I regard your treatise  as a step by step college level  Pilot2ATC 202 course; as such it will take me quite some time to digest, and respond in kind, and correct.

 

P2A deserves more "official" beta testers. I would love to extend my beta testing because P2A holds so much promise...it is unfortunate I only have three days left on the trial term...Dave? 

 

 

Your grateful friend in the skies,

 

Chas

[vr1 0]

Chas,

 

I sent you a PM.

 

Helge