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riccardo74

Which is your tecnique to land MD11 manually (no A/P no A/T)?

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Great post, Peter. Just tried your FSUIPC tips, but if I disable my MS Force Feedback 2 joystick(disable controller)from with FSX-SE, I now longer have any control surfaces movements from the joystick. Am I reading you incorrectly as regards the 'disable joystick' bit?


Rick Almeida

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Great post, Peter. Just tried your FSUIPC tips, but if I disable my MS Force Feedback 2 joystick(disable controller)from with FSX-SE, I now longer have any control surfaces movements from the joystick. Am I reading you incorrectly as regards the 'disable joystick' bit?

 

With the proviso that I use FS9.1, my understanding is that "disable joystick" in the sim's settings disables any direct input from the joystick/yoke.

 

But if you use FSUIPC to assign and calibrate an axis, it is FSUIPC that reads your joystick inputs and then ouputs those signals to the sim. This is how I have all my PMDG/Level-D/Dreamfleet/Qualitywings aircraft set up.

 

Are you sue you are correctly assigning and calibrating with FSUIPC ?

 

Maybe it is a FSX-SE problem that prevents you doing this.


Peter Schluter

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@Ric D

 

If you have the time, could you kindly configure the MD-11F for a take-off from Quito with 100Kg fuel, random freightload, but was not sure I had the correct flex temp of 52 as I discovered I was struggling to even make the take-off, with stabilizer set for 7.1, the only time I have not managed it. But Quito is high altitude and maybe my flex temp was not correct?

 

Thanks in advance.


Rick Almeida

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Will give it a shot@ vc10man. Sounds pretty high for Quito. I've only done max power out of there in the real world. I need to know your actual takeoff weight to get an idea of what was happening. You could have been too heavy with too much of a flex at a hot and high airport.

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Hi @Rick D.

 

Thanks for your swift reply. As requested, a screenshot of the PMDG Load Manager.

 

PMDGMD-11Weights.jpg

 

I had a feeling the flex part of it was the main cause for not being able to maintain climb thrust. OAT was 24C as per ASN, but I had no tables to set the flex temp so was more or less expecting a stall.

 

As I had done outbound flight with that same cargo and fuel load from EDDF, I knew I should have enough fuel for the 12-hour flight. I was trying to replicate a Lufthansa MD-11 flight shown on PilotsEye tv.


Rick Almeida

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I used TOPCAT for your MD-11 figures at SEQM  with temp 25C

 

RWY 18 says: T/O weight exceeds Perf Lim Weight of 229,240 kg. Reason : CLIMB

 

RWY 36 says T/O weight exceeds Perf Lim Weight of 234,960 kg. Reason : TYRES

 

So according to TOPCAT, not only should you not have been using a flex temp, but you should not have been taking off at all even with max thrust.

 

nb. these are for SEQM , as TOPCAT does not recognise SEQU.... its closed I think ?


Peter Schluter

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Great research. Peter.

 

So, how does the R/L Lufthansa Cargo MD-11F take-off from there, as it most certainly flies in if according to your figures I should not have been taking off from even Rwy 36? I could not compile a PFPX flightplan without changing the DEP to SEQM.

 

I'm trying to replicate that PilotsEYE tv Lufthansa Cargo MD-11F flight which was most probably into/out of the now defunct SEQU.


Rick Almeida

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According to this website - http://pilotseye.tv/en/route/lufthansa-cargo-quito-md11-english/ it looks like the flight out SEQU was to Bogota, Columbia, then Puerto Rico, and then EDDF. The flight into SEQU was from Manaus, Brazil.

 

So, how does the R/L Lufthansa Cargo MD-11F take-off from there, as it mostcertainly flies in if according to your figures I should not have been taking off from even Rwy 36? I could not compile a PFPX flightplan without changing the DEP to SEQM.


Michael Cubine
xVxT6x.jpg

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Yes Michael, you are right.

My next leg will be Manaus to Quito, with a challenging manual approach. So far I have completed all the other legs. Great tour!

 

@Ric D: any news about your tutorial?


Riccardo

OS: Windows 10-64 bit, CPU: i7-7700K @4.20 GHz, GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 8GB GDDR5, RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB 3000MHz, MB: MSI Z270

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Thank you Ric.


Riccardo

OS: Windows 10-64 bit, CPU: i7-7700K @4.20 GHz, GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 8GB GDDR5, RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB 3000MHz, MB: MSI Z270

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Great thread! I think I'm still learning manually flying the MD11, but, anyhow here is my attempt: (KSAN RWY27)


Sam. 

Waiting for the 64-bit PSION Flightsim for ZX-Spectrum ////

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I'm practicing Ric technique, without pitch trim, just only follow the G/S e LOC manually controlling the column (joystick) and give/remove light power thrust. The result is excellent!

 

But obviously I wan't to read the tutorial :-)

 

@Sam I think you have a RoD too high, over 1000 fpm on short final; I suppose this is a NON-precision approach, w/o G/S and only LOC, correct? Why didn't switch on FD?


Riccardo

OS: Windows 10-64 bit, CPU: i7-7700K @4.20 GHz, GPU: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 G1 8GB GDDR5, RAM: Corsair Vengeance DDR4 32GB 3000MHz, MB: MSI Z270

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Gents,
I haven't forgotten the tutorial. I've been doing a lot flying and doing a lot of office work since I head the flight standards office. I also deleted the tutorial once by mistake and started over. I'll paste in what I have so far. Remember it's a work in progress and my change once i finish and edit.

Greetings all,
In this tutorial we will focus on flying the MD11. A lot of the tips I mention are DC-10-30 specifics, but should work out with the MD11. Before taking on this tutorial, I recommend reading the PMDG MD11 FMS guide. This will definitely prepare you for the tutorial flight with in. Also, take time to read up on the automation so that you are familiar with the process of preparing for a flight. We will discuss some characteristics of Micky D three holers, flying tips and a proficiency flight.
First we will talk about some of its characteristics. One of the first things you will learn about this type is that it is full of momentum. They are full of inertia. This means that it takes time to respond in trajectory and speed. With that in mind, you should only make small corrections and changes. So add a little, wait a little. Add more, wait more. This will also require you to stay ahead of the aircraft and anticipate maneuvers and speed changes. The engines also lag when making changes from lower settings to higher settings. So this aircraft with its large weight range behaves like 3 different type of aircrafts. There’s the heavy, medium and light jet.
The heavy jet is full off momentum. She responds to throttle input slowly. Once she gets going, you have to pull the power because it will carry through. You have to be patient and judge power inputs during taxi. When taxying off a spot, we use a 10% technique for breakaway thrust. You take your total weight in pounds, I.E 560K, and use 10% of it. So 560K would be 56% N1 on 1 and 3. You will hear 10% a lot throughout this document.

 

In the DC10, we only started 1 and 3 when below 500K. When above 500K, we start 2, but all ways leave it at idle. The number 2 is pointed downward. This causes some serious issues. 1 and 3 have the ground to disperse some of the thrust, but 2 is unabated. It’s been known to flip small aircraft, implode 2 story buildings and turn over stands/equipment. For this reason, we leave it at idle during taxi. Being heavy makes this a major concern. We start engines and set 10% of gross weight on 1 and 2 then wait. After a moment, she will slowly start moving. In the real world, when sitting over long hours at heavy weight, the tires gain flat spots. This will make breakaway a little more difficult. It’s not uncommon to hear the takeoff warning when overcoming flat spots, but you add power in very slow increments until it finally moves and cut the power. You will feel the plane jostle for a bit while taxying until the flat spots work themselves out. Dropping flaps will also help deflect some of your thrust. Just be careful, I’ve seen man hole covers flipped up from DC10s when using too much thrust.

 

During takeoff, you will notice the weight during rotate. The heavy jet requires a little more pull to get the 3 to 4 degrees per second for rotate. The pitch required for V2+10 is a little lower. In flight, speed changes have to be thought out and anticipated. All ways move the throttles in knob length. If you are making a speed change, wiggle the throttles forward about the length of a throttle knob. Let it sit. If it doesn’t respond, add in another half of knob. Once speed increases, take half of that input out. It becomes a finesse job at speed control. Even when making large speed changes, use minimum throttle movement. Large inputs lead to over shoots and throttle cycling. You should also apply the same in control input. Small inputs and small corrections. This leads to smoother control. On approach, set the power and forget it. On approach, I use the 10% plus 23 rule (DC10). 400K = 40 + 23 = 63. With pounds, this is easy to figure out. Once on approach and configured, do the math using 10% of your gross weight. Take N1% to maintain approach speed and minus the 10%. So if my MD11 was 430K and 69% held my approach speed. 69 – 43 = 26. So 10% of weight + 26 is a good power setting on approach. This is key because throttle cycle leads to pitch changes, which leads to being unstable. These days, pitch and power doesn’t work as well in jets.

 

For example, if you are low on the glideslope, adding power in jet aircraft will cause you to get fast. Now you are low and fast. Then you will start to climb and have to pull that power which will get you slow and high. This works well in prop aircraft, but not as effective. It’s better to just set the power and trim for approach. If you get low, add a little light back pressure. As you correct back, relax the pressure. Initially, you will get a couple of knots slow. As you relax the pressure to capture, the plane naturally wants to fly the slope if properly trimmed. The speed will naturally correct back to approach speed. That’s the key to a stable approach. No rush to correct, just use slight corrections and apply them early. With my forearms on the armrests and using my fingertips, I can do this for ever.

 

In the flare, at high landing weights, the plane again reacts slower. Again, we use the 10% rule. We start the flare at 10% of our gross weight in pounds. 400K = 40ft. So at the 40ft call out, start your flare and power pull. This assists with the inertia involved in heavier landings. Basically, at heavy weights, the power has to be pulled early. This is because the heavier jet takes time to disperse energy and airspeed. At lighter weights, the power is left in longer because a lighter jet will respond quicker. The 10% technique keeps your flare and power pull at the optimum height. Your flare rate will be based on the radar altimeter call outs. The normal body attitude on a 3 degree path with flaps 35 is 4.5 degrees. The 2 to 3 degree flare change have you up towards 8 degrees. At this attitude, your eye position is high and it’s hard to judge sink rate with the lack of visual cues. You basically look further down the runway, use your peripheral view and flare on the call outs. The rate of the callouts will tell you how fast you are sinking. After a few landings, you will learn the cadence for a good landing. If I were to put it in graphical form, it may look like this.

 

Typical good landing: 50..40..30…20….10….touch. Typical hard landing: 50.40.30.20..10..touch. Typical float: 50..40…30….20….10……….touch. Typical float with hard: 50..40….30…………20..10.touch. The issue with float in this plane is that when it runs out of airspeed, it drops in firmly. A well planned and executed approach will ease the landing. At 300ft agl, you want to be on path, speed, aligned and stable. We call it being in the slot. At the 100ft callout, the threshold should disappear below the glare shield. Targeting a greaser will get you in trouble. At heavy weight landings, the approach speed can be as high as 155 kts. At these speeds, you use a lot of real-estate. You want to consistently put this plane down around the 1500 to 2000ft point. It’s a long bodied jet so use the long body visual indicators or a combination of white and pink. Shooting for white and red can lead to trouble. Remember, the threshold crossing height is based on the glide slope antennae. In these planes, it’s in the nose. A TCH of 52ft means your nose is crossing at 52ft, imagine where the gear crosses. For this reason, we use long body or white and pink. For example, 3 whites and 1 pink. Your aim point should be the big captain bars/1000ft down. 1000ft down and a normal flare will put you 1500ft down.

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