Simheaven w2xp sceneries + the new autogen

[conura 45]

Hello all,

 

I'm a bit confused. Basically, I installed the European mixed version of SimHeavens sceneries and it looks great. Far more European whilst flying in Europe. I just don't really understands quite what is happening!

 

So when I get this download, it re positions towns etc based on more accurate data (which is partially crowd sourced?) and on top of that, it draws the correctly positioned towns using the models I downloaded (i.e the r_2 lib, open scenery, Europe library). Is this correct?

 

Does this also mean that once XP 10.50 comes out I won't see any of their new autogen? Is the w2xp pre build scenery from simheaven superior to the new default autogen?

 

Many thanks, I have read through the docs but I wasn't entirely sure!

 

 

[Colonel X 1,428]

"Mixed" means that X-Plane autogen will fill up the holes that exist in OSM scenery. In these holes, you will see the new 10.50 autogen.

 

I recommend you to skip stuff from SimHeaven. The Europe Library has very bad LOD parameters, bad performance and causes micro-stutters on many systems (tested this exhaustingly).

 

The OSM sceneries, while they do enable a more authentic depiction of towns and cities, they also are a drag on performance, as this data was never meant to be used in a game engine (it is for maps), and thus is unoptimized to be used in such way. It's very easy to mess up your sim using unoptimized hobby "products".

[conura 45]

"Mixed" means that X-Plane autogen will fill up the holes that exist in OSM scenery. In these holes, you will see the new 10.50 autogen.

 

I recommend you to skip stuff from SimHeaven. The Europe Library has very bad LOD parameters, bad performance and causes micro-stutters on many systems (tested this exhaustingly).

 

The OSM sceneries, while they do enable a more authentic depiction of towns and cities, they also are a drag on performance, as this data was never meant to be used in a game engine (it is for maps), and thus is unoptimized to be used in such way. It's very easy to mess up your sim using unoptimized hobby "products".

 You're right - on my system I am down to 10fps in places with those sceneries..Damn!

 

I really wish 10.50 was out on steam. I am so desperate for the new autogen!

[Wynthorpe 51]

"Mixed" means that X-Plane autogen will fill up the holes that exist in OSM scenery. In these holes, you will see the new 10.50 autogen.

 

I recommend you to skip stuff from SimHeaven. The Europe Library has very bad LOD parameters, bad performance and causes micro-stutters on many systems (tested this exhaustingly).

 

The OSM sceneries, while they do enable a more authentic depiction of towns and cities, they also are a drag on performance, as this data was never meant to be used in a game engine (it is for maps), and thus is unoptimized to be used in such way. It's very easy to mess up your sim using unoptimized hobby "products".

 

Which versions would you recommend? The tool is no longer available is it as far as im aware?

[Colonel X 1,428]

Which versions would you recommend? The tool is no longer available is it as far as im aware?

 

Well I can't recommend any OSM add-on unless a real developer would optimize it for usage within X-Plane, in terms of performance and looks (for example add textures, LIT textures and such) - making it a real scenery product instead of a free, tentative download. The non-mixed versions (which give better but still bad performance) are still available from the same site as far as I am concerned, but as described above, the will leave you with big holes in cities where no OSM data exists.

 

I recommend vanilla X-Plane 10.50 with HD Mesh V3.

 

Check these shots: http://www.avsim.com/topic/492023-us-cities-in-x-plane-1050/

[conura 45]

Well I can't recommend any OSM add-on unless a real developer would optimize it for usage within X-Plane, in terms of performance and looks (for example add textures, LIT textures and such) - making it a real scenery product instead of a free, tentative download. The non-mixed versions (which give better but still bad performance) are still available from the same site as far as I am concerned, but as described above, the will leave you with big holes in cities where no OSM data exists.

 

I recommend vanilla X-Plane 10.50 with HD Mesh V3.

 

Check these shots: http://www.avsim.com/topic/492023-us-cities-in-x-plane-1050/

I'm following your advice and downloading all the HD Mesh V3 tiles and will stick with vanilla XP10 with Skymaxx Pro 3. Do you have any idea at all when the 10.50 client will be available on Steam? I'm of course happy to wait but am curious about the time line.

[tonywob 4,768]

Well I can't recommend any OSM add-on unless a real developer would optimize it for usage within X-Plane,

Not sure if I should take offence by that or not, but I am a real developer and the last sceneries I did are as much optimised as I believe is possible :/. If you want accurate scenery (1 to 1 buildings) then you are going to need a good machine to run it, or start turning down your settings.

 

OSM can contain a lot of data, and some of the more detailed areas will have individual trees and lamp posts mapped. Older versions of W2XP (Simheaven use 0.7.2) even tried to use roof colours, but this ended producing far too many varieties of buildings, resulting in bad loading times. I switched off this level of detail when I generate my own sceneries and performance is far better.

 

Also mixing both this along with X-Plane's autogen is a big burden on the system. I'd recommend you use either one of the other, but not both.

[MindYerBeak 73]

I recommend you to skip stuff from SimHeaven. The Europe Library has very bad LOD parameters, bad performance and causes micro-stutters on many systems (tested this exhaustingly).

 

 

What  do you recommend we download for Europe instead ?

 

Thanks

[tonywob 4,768]

There is nothing else. Until Laminar Research start creating autogen for Europe, you are stuck with the American look everywhere. 10.50 is good if you fly in the US, but I haven't seen a massive improvement elsewhere.

 

If you want good performance and generally fly above 3000ft, go with photoscenery if you have disk space and patience to download or create it. 

[MindYerBeak 73]

Oh, great.Thanks  Tony.

[Wynthorpe 51]

Not sure if I should take offence by that or not, but I am a real developer and the last sceneries I did are as much optimised as I believe is possible :/. If you want accurate scenery (1 to 1 buildings) then you are going to need a good machine to run it, or start turning down your settings.

 

OSM can contain a lot of data, and some of the more detailed areas will have individual trees and lamp posts mapped. Older versions of W2XP (Simheaven use 0.7.2) even tried to use roof colours, but this ended producing far too many varieties of buildings, resulting in bad loading times. I switched off this level of detail when I generate my own sceneries and performance is far better.

 

Also mixing both this along with X-Plane's autogen is a big burden on the system. I'd recommend you use either one of the other, but not both.

 

Hello Tony,

Is your tool still available to use? I'd like to try it out with all my Ortho4XP ive generated.

Thanks

[EvilNando 2]

exactly what this dude says! 

 

I was about to write basically a word by word description of OSM

 

 

if you value your FPS , stay away from it

 

 

"Mixed" means that X-Plane autogen will fill up the holes that exist in OSM scenery. In these holes, you will see the new 10.50 autogen.

 

I recommend you to skip stuff from SimHeaven. The Europe Library has very bad LOD parameters, bad performance and causes micro-stutters on many systems (tested this exhaustingly).

 

The OSM sceneries, while they do enable a more authentic depiction of towns and cities, they also are a drag on performance, as this data was never meant to be used in a game engine (it is for maps), and thus is unoptimized to be used in such way. It's very easy to mess up your sim using unoptimized hobby "products".

[Colonel X 1,428]

Not sure if I should take offence by that or not, but I am a real developer and the last sceneries I did are as much optimised as I believe is possible :/. If you want accurate scenery (1 to 1 buildings) then you are going to need a good machine to run it, or start turning down your settings.

 

OSM can contain a lot of data, and some of the more detailed areas will have individual trees and lamp posts mapped. Older versions of W2XP (Simheaven use 0.7.2) even tried to use roof colours, but this ended producing far too many varieties of buildings, resulting in bad loading times. I switched off this level of detail when I generate my own sceneries and performance is far better.

 

Also mixing both this along with X-Plane's autogen is a big burden on the system. I'd recommend you use either one of the other, but not both.

 

No offence Tony! By "real developer" I meant a company has the means to create a commercial product out of OSM data. There's no free lunch, remember. You are totally right though, if you want 1:1 buildings, prepare for a sideshow. Same goes for trees I guess.

 

I wonder if your sceneries are available somewhere? Or did you just create your own with W2XP? I take it you're not associated with SimHeaven? I think it would be great to have a "VRF relevant objects only" version of OSM, you know TV towers, wind turbines and the like ONLY to add to the regular autogen. But then even the SimHeaven sceneries don't even feature those objects, so I lost hope.

 

I think it's worthless not to mix with autogen. I flew over my town and there were big holes in the town. Immersion killer, instant uninstall.

 

 

 

What  do you recommend we download for Europe instead ?

 

Thanks

 

There's nothing as of now, unfortunately except for HD Mesh V3. Since 10.50 features a lot more "large buildings" or 1950s+ high rises, depiction of inner cities in Europe will get a little better even with US autogen, since the dominating architectural style in that period was "International Style" - in Europe and the US.

 

 

 

I'm following your advice and downloading all the HD Mesh V3 tiles and will stick with vanilla XP10 with Skymaxx Pro 3. Do you have any idea at all when the 10.50 client will be available on Steam? I'm of course happy to wait but am curious about the time line.

 

My guess is around 2 months from now.

[pmb 5,137]

I can only speak for myself, but depiction of my hometown and some surrounding European cities is from 0 to 100 between naked XP and World2XP. Actually the representation using World2XP (+ HD Mesh) is by far the best among all consumer simulators I know todate, including full ORBX stuff under Prepar3d (which may or may not change when ORBX Germany will be released). 

 

The US may be another story, but even there I find World2XP an improvement.

 

Kind regards, Michael

[tonywob 4,768]

 

 

I wonder if your sceneries are available somewhere? Or did you just create your own with W2XP? I take it you're not associated with SimHeaven? I think it would be great to have a "VRF relevant objects only" version of OSM, you know TV towers, wind turbines and the like ONLY to add to the regular autogen. But then even the SimHeaven sceneries don't even feature those objects, so I lost hope.

 

The application can be configured just to add in what you want, so if you only want wind turbines then you can just make a scenery for that .The issue I have is that not many people read the instructions that come with the app and don't realise that:

 

- If you give it garbage data, you'll get garbage back out. A lot of OSM is not very good quality, and some if it is excellent.

- You are free to choose the models, LODS and almost everything you want by modifying the config and regenerating the scenery. The default config file is pretty nasty and heavy and should be configured to suit the area you are generating.

 

I gave up developing the application for this reason. People were expecting it to produce ORBX scenery out of the box, and to get good results you need to fix and experiment, and it can be time consuming. I was getting a little tired of being blamed for trees on a runway and other issues which could be fixed by reading the instructions and using the application as a development tool and not a magic scenery solution :-)

 

Simheaven use W2XP to produce their sceneries and they also have modified and added a lot of their own artwork and rules as well. I am not involved in creating these sceneries, but I'm glad they do it as it means most people can just download and get the scenery instead of trying to make it theirselves. Unfortunately I still get lots of emails thinking I am Simheaven and I manage those sceneries, and whilst I do stay in touch now and then with the site admin, I am not involved or responsible for the site.

 

All my stuff is on x-plane.org under the World2XPlane section. The Norway and Denmark sceneries are using my own unreleased version of W2XP and I don't use OSM data alone. The data is cleaned up a lot and they are far more optimised (having less lego buildings and more instancing friendly models). You should get better performance than the Europe sceneries, but there is still a lot of data there (The Norway one is autogened using address points). If you're using a helicopter or C172 then you'll like these sceneries, but if you are flying over in a 737 then such scenery is pointless.

 

 

Hello Tony,
Is your tool still available to use? I'd like to try it out with all my Ortho4XP ive generated.
Thanks

 

Yep, there is an old version on x-plane.org in the World2XPlane section. You may need to hunt around on YouTube for tutorials though as I no longer have my old site.