I am switching to p3d soon and I was curious if I had to re purchase all of my existing pmdg products for use in p3d.

[Raven9000 272]

Guys,

 

We haven't specifically stated where the cut over will be. All we've said is "we anticipate" X, Y, or Z. As an example, we have stated before that your current license will likely carry you through the 64 bit update, which we had anticipated as coming out sometime in the 3.X time frame. We have also stated before that your current license will likely carry you through at least the 3.X versions. That could mean that it would carry you through 5, or 6, or even a later version, but it could also only carry you through the end of 3.

 

"Some have expressed concern about forward compatibility with LM version changes.  We have already indicated that our current product licensing will carry you through at least v3.x and x64bit conversion, which we anticipate taking place in v3.x... based on publicly available information.)  I am unable to predict what will happen beyond this, but at that point we are likely a good 2 years out and we will evaluate what is fair for the marketplace at that time."

http://www.avsim.com/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

 

Please be careful about how you repeat this information here in the forum. When it comes to official stuff like this, it may be best to link people to the information instead of paraphrasing. I have a feeling that's how some in this thread got to the incorrect information: prior paraphrasing by others.

Yep.. I remember when this was said, back when nobody though they would jump to 3 while still 32 bit and though 3 was gonna be 64. Glad to see it had been stated as "at least v3.x and x64bit conversion"

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Yep.. I remember when this was said, back when nobody though they would jump to 3 while still 32 bit and though 3 was gonna be 64.

 

Was there a point attempted here but not finished, or am I just burned out from my week and not getting it?

[Boomer 1,619]

Oh interesting.  So, if I buy the 744v2 for P3D 32-bit, I will get the 64-bit if and when P3D goes 64-bit?

[mtrainer 136]

My thoughts - if you can't afford the quality add-ons you desire, it's time to find a cheaper hobby or a better paying job.  Whining on forums about price is counter productive.  

 

I'm highly selective about the add-ons I have purchased and the beauty of it is, unless you're flying 40+ hours a week you don't need a hanger full of airplanes and every major airport in the world rendered in detail.  Prepar3D with about $300 of add-ons provides a year or more of studying, flying, practice, and sheer enjoyment.  Limit your aircraft and your locations; you'll never cringe when the base platform moves forward (and it always will).

 

Mark Trainer

[brucewtb 249]

None of this gives me any confidence about making a PMDG purchase for P3D at this stage it is just too uncertain as to whether a license will cover you through to 64 bit if it arrives with v4.xxx. But one thing is certain no point in getting any more PMDG stuff for FSX including the 747 v2.  I don't object to paying top dollar for high quality stuff but paying again and again for the same thing is not on.

 

Bruceb

[scandinavian13 5,192]

None of this gives me any confidence about making a PMDG purchase for P3D at this stage it is just too uncertain as to whether a license will cover you through to 64 bit if it arrives with v4.xxx. But one thing is certain no point in getting any more PMDG stuff for FSX including the 747 v2.  I don't object to paying top dollar for high quality stuff but paying again and again for the same thing is not on.

 

Bruceb

 

I'm really not sure where all of this questioning is coming from...

 

In this thread alone, this information exists:

"Some have expressed concern about forward compatibility with LM version changes.  We have already indicated that our current product licensing will carry you through at least v3.x and x64bit conversion, which we anticipate taking place in v3.x... based on publicly available information.)  I am unable to predict what will happen beyond this, but at that point we are likely a good 2 years out and we will evaluate what is fair for the marketplace at that time."

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

 

Are people not reading this, or is there some conspiracy of which I am not aware...?

[brucewtb 249]

Some have expressed concern about forward compatibility with LM version changes.  We have already indicated that our current product licensing will carry you through at least v3.x and x64bit conversion, which we anticipate taking place in v3.x... based on publicly available information.)  I am unable to predict what will happen beyond this, but at that point we are likely a good 2 years out and we will evaluate what is fair for the marketplace at that time."

 

 

I guess what I am looking for is an explicit statement that a PMDG P3D license purchased now (or, for example, when the 747v2 is released) will carry through to a 64 bit P3D v4.x if that is when a 64 bit version is first released by LM as I do not see any commitment to this in the above quote.  Thank you.

 

Bruceb 

[pcubine 143]

Are people not reading this, or is there some conspiracy of which I am not aware...?

I don't think there is any conspiracy or people not reading the quote. I believe the question is - what happens if the 64bit update is in released in version 4. Support or no support, new license or old, new aircraft to be purchased again? I have seen nothing that addresses this situation.

[Nyxx 6,993]

Funny thing about facts, though, is that your disagreement matters absolutely nothing.

 

When I was in uni, I got the whole Adobe CS on an academic license. When I graduated and needed a graphics suite, I had to go buy a commercial license. The code is exactly the same, but it was no longer the academic platform; it was the commercial platform.

Hi kyle 

True all our disagreements matters absolutely nothing if PMDG cannot see our POV or unlike yourself that will at least lesion. I hope PMDG do... but given there " pricing police talking =delete" it might seem not?

 

Your comparison Adobe CS is an interesting one.

With P3D the base licence is just what you quoted "Academic", if you had different price for let say the Pro version(commercial) I could get that, but the point is you gave no upgrade option to your customer unlike everyone else to even the basic "Academic" license.

 

The problem does not matter as off the 747v2 as people will buy for the sim they use, but people will never forget PMDG no upgrade path from the NG-777 to P3D. to put it politely it was poor to say the least on many levels. Its in the past but as you see that problem is always there.

[sascha 314]

 

 

Funny thing about facts, though, is that your disagreement matters absolutely nothing.

 

I would ask members of PMDG to be courteous in their responses. This comes across as needlessly rude.

 

 

As I've mentioned in another thread, our pricing policy is not to be discussed because only we know the costs, risks, and so on, regarding our business environment; nobody else does. As such, discussion about it only generates a bunch of vitriol, and is usually wholly misguided.

 

Don't you feel that your customers are part of your business environment? Customer satisfaction should be part of your pricing policy I think. And not addressing certain obviously recurring concerns of your customers will inevitably result in debate.

 

Sscha Rieger

[Boomer 1,619]

EULAs for software are odd things in that they often try to get the user to agree to things that either wouldn't hold up in court or can't be enforced regardless.

 

Case in point, P3D. EVERYONE, including LM, knows many of its purchasers are of the hobby (entertainment) variety. But they don't care. Why? Because likely they really don't care or, as well, they know they have no way of enforcing that provision of their EULA.

[sosuflyer 30]

They have to pay separate licensing fees to Boeing for P3D because of the different EULA. The original license agreement with Boeing only covered fsx. This is what happens when you are officially licensed by an aircraft manufacturer. Companies like Carenado don't have license agreements with manufacturers so they don't have to have separate license agreements for different platforms, therefore one price.

[icemarkom 59]

My 2c on this topic, as someone who has worked in small companies like PMDG is, and as someone who has (and still is) working for one of the largest and most successful software/service companies in the world. Interestingly enough, there are striking similarities between the two.

 

Users are everything. They take note of how they are treated, and make choices based on that, more often than a mere quality of the product. The decision to purchase A or B, often comes down to how the user has been treated in the past, if the business relationship existed. When evaluating a purchase that may require ongoing support, users will very often evaluate not only the product, but the perceived interaction of their future business partner with their users. Rudeness never goes a long way in the face of competition.

 

That said, there are valid user concerns, and there are essentially invalid ones. 

 

This whole thread I find a little disappointing from both sides: as a paying PMDG customer, but also as someone who sells their "brain product". 

 

As a PMDG customer, the arrogance displayed by some PMDG representatives is quite frankly infuriating, and disheartening. It's as if the users' existence is merely for their amusement, and not survival. In the long run, this tends to destroy even the strongest players on the market when faced with competition. This has nothing to do with the quality of their product, or the support privately provided via the tickets, rather their public communication style.

 

From the other side, the complaints about the *unknown* future price of a potential significant, or insignificant upgrade are, quite frankly, ridiculous. The price will be what PMDG deems necessary to support their future business growth. They may deem that to be $0, or $1,000. When they set the price, we, the users, will respond with our wallets. We may be happy, or unhappy.

 

I am pretty sure that at this point in time, I have *no data* to evaluate whether I will care about future P3D, or PMDG paid update. When I made the conscientious transition from FSX to P3D for my personal simulation needs, my understanding was that anything I purchased on FSX will probably *not* work on the new platform, and I made a willing decision to transition, because I saw merit in doing so. When a new P3D comes out, and requires a similar upgrade cost, I will make my evaluation at that point, because I believe that only at that point I will have enough data to perform a thoughtful cost-benefit analysis.

 

Now forgive me while I go and make an impulse buy of NGX 600-700 expansion for P3D, because I actually quite like PMDG's products, and am an avid supporter of wallet-voting to ensure continued support and development.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

True all our disagreements matters absolutely nothing if PMDG cannot see our POV or unlike yourself that will at least lesion. I hope PMDG do... but given there " pricing police talking =delete" it might seem not?

 

 

 

I would ask members of PMDG to be courteous in their responses. This comes across as needlessly rude.

 

 

You both need to go back and look at the comment in context. P3D operates in the environment that it operates in. Someone's agreement or disagreement with a factual classification of that environment doesn't matter. I can disagree that the calendar will tick over to the 28th in less than 8 hours, but that won't stop the next day from coming.

 

 

 

Don't you feel that your customers are part of your business environment? Customer satisfaction should be part of your pricing policy I think. And not addressing certain obviously recurring concerns of your customers will inevitably result in debate.

 

 

I'd be interested to know where else you have gotten this much direct access to a company directly, and on somewhat of a casual level. Make sure to also provide a narrative on your criticism of their pricing policy, and what their reaction to that was. Keep in mind, as well, that we never said "criticism" of the policy...we said "discussion of." The problem is that criticism often delves into discussion, as has been the case here. We have nothing against people saying they don't like something here. The issue shows up in the fact that the debate always gets ugly, and the actors in said debate don't know what's going on behind the scenes, so their suggestions and arguments are largely moot. So...giant discussion that gets ugly, for zero benefit...you'll have to forgive us for trying to curtail that.

 

You say all of this as if we are up in some walled off tower, staring down at all of you, while ignoring feedback entirely.

 

No. I'm Kyle. I'm right here. Sitting here on a laptop. On my weekend. Supporting people in the queue, but also taking time to respond to the things people post here in the forum. More specifically, I'm responding to you. Directly. Because we feel like actually discussing quite a number of things with our customers here.

 

...one of the only caveats, however, is pricing policy. Since this has crept more in that direction, I'm going to end the discussion here. Feel free to engage with a number of us on a host of other issues here in the forum.