2D landing views

[Guest william273]

i'm not quite through with this subject yet so please bare with me. i can see the runways during the final approach and landing in the default GA aircraft just fine. in the lear, 747 and 777 i can not see it at all. funny, no problem in the 737, go figure. ok so enter the landing views and i'm talking about the shift/enter keys to raise the seat. by the way, i have experimented with different fuel and payload weights to see if that helps but it didn't do much. using the shift/enter to raise the seat messes up my perspective as to when and how much to pull back on the stick when about to touch down and during the flare. i don't like having to switch back and forth during the landing phase so i'm wondering HOW you manage the proper pitch and flare and still keep a proper perspective during all this? i can come in faster than i'm supposed to and that helps some but it's not the approach speed recommended. for some reason i hope i'm doing something wrong in this process and don't need to use the shift/enter keys but i don't know what it is. i may have left out of detailt or two here as to what i've been doing with this but it's close enough. this is for the 2D cockpit, no problems in VC mode. william

[Guest OneTinSoldier]

If a 2D Panel blocks my view, then I cheat. Well, maybe you'd call it cheating. In rl I'd think I could adjust my seat/view properly if needed in order to be able to see the runway! Well, I suppose that might depend on the plane. Anyway, if I feel the type of airplane I'm flying should not be blocking my view in the 2D Panel view, then I press SHIFT + 1 to get rid of the 2D Panel and then press it again to get then get my panel back if I want. I go back and forth between NO PANEL and PANEL as I see fit. As you said, if the aircraft has a VC there is no problem raising the seat as needed and you get to keep your panel.Cheers,OneTinSoldier

[Guest allcott]

Personally, I use the instruments - and practice, practice and practice. It's exactly the same in the real world where you train to use the same sight picture through the windscreen - the runway will appear in the same place relative to the windscreen pillars, nose cowling or compass box, but you still use the instruments to cross-check.The only difference in FS is the absence of peripheral vision, so if you're having trouble judging the flare then its because you haven't settled on one setting and practiced, practiced and practiced until it `looks right`.Allcott

[edetroit 933]

"using the shift/enter to raise the seat messes up my perspective as to when and how much to pull back on the stick when about to touch down and during the flare"I agree, what I do (if you can) is make a landing view.:)edit* If you can't ...ajust the eyepoint direction permanently (so you can see more tarmac) in the panel cfg

regardsEd

http://forums.avsim.net/user_files/131222.jpgAMD Athlon 64 3500+, 1024Mb PC3200 DDR, 300Gb HD 128Mb DDR Nvidia 6600GT PCI Express, Audigy 2 ZSCH Products Yoke, Pedals and Throttle Quadrant

[AlaskanFlyboy 7]

Pressing W instead of Shift+1 gets rid of the panel and puts mini gauges on the bottom of the screen, it's on a cycle so each press of W cycles mini-gauges, nothing, then panel.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

[3Green 80]

I've found by editing the aircraft.cfg file (flap section) yields the best result. Flaps.0type=1span-outboard=0.500000extending-time=10.000000system_type=1flaps-position.0=0flaps-position.1=5flaps-position.2=10flaps-position.3=15flaps-position.4=35damaging-speed=250 // KIASblowout-speed=270 // KIASlift_scalar=4.8 drag_scalar=1.0pitch_scalar=1.0Play with the lift_scalar and Pitch_scalar and you'll produce a very realistic effect like in real life. When lowering more and more flap, more lift is created, giving you a better visual view. You'll have to play with it to get it just right, but once tweaked, you'll do it to every aircraft...PS: If you don't have the last three lines in the flap section, than add it, starting with all values set to 1.

[Guest Shalomar]

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!I suggest setting it as part of your pre takeoff and leaving it alone. Generally with a full panel displayed you should see the sky when on the ground, but not much of it. Unless you are running high res it will probably be the last notch before the sky disapears. As acheck, compare your interior and exterior views- can you see the ground too close to you, or are you not able to see anything close to you you should be able to see from that plane's perspective? The right setting for aproach is not always the best for enroute high altitude sightseeing though.Another "trick" is also to drag the top of the panel down with your mouse- the old resizing. There is some leeway before the instruments get "out of round" usually.Best Regards, Donny:-wave

[LAdamson 240]

>If a 2D Panel blocks my view, then I cheat. Well, maybe you'd>call it cheating. It isn't cheating! :D Unless we're flying a taildragger with a long nose, and going for a three point attitude, such as the RealAir Spitfire, the runway should be in sight without a 2D panel stuck in the way.I'm not a fan of shift-enter for 2D panels either. If I can't see the runway, I use the W key and shiftZ for airspeed readouts. I usually prefer VC's for landing, and will use shift-enter for technically raise the seat. X-Plane has a feature that makes the cockpit semi-transparent, which also helps for the flare & peripheral vison. I'm just not a big time X-Plane fan, though...L.Adamson

[Guest drix]

Make sure your plane does not have above 50% fuel while landing in a heavy. The airlines are stringent on carrying the minimum amount of fuel while complying with 14 CFR so they hardly ever carry more fuel than they will need. The weight difference alone helps with excessive flaring at touchdown. Also put both your 2d/3d cockpit zoom level to .50. this gives you better peripheral vision and in my opinion makes the entire flight experience more realistic. the sensation of speed is finally present.i must admit most freeware planes that i download are really sloppy in the longitudnal axis which makes the landing phase overly difficult. so i stay away. the flight model of the a/c is important. you should not have to raise the seat more than once and in payware planes it should not be necessary except for cruise flight. make sure you have the right v speeds for the a/c and stick to themhope this helps

[LAdamson 240]

>Play with the lift_scalar and Pitch_scalar and you'll produce>a very realistic effect like in real life. When lowering more>and more flap, more lift is created, giving you a better>visual view. You'll have to play with it to get it just>right, but once tweaked, you'll do it to every aircraft...>However, in real life, flaps might pitch the nose down, or up, or no real change in attitude at all.And while you'll see older prop airliners, and new commuter aircraft approaching with a nose down attitude like a Cessna 172, many commercial jets will loose altitude in a near flat attitude, or slightly nose up.L.Adamson

[NM5K 1]

edit* If you can't ...ajust the eyepoint direction permanently (so you can see more tarmac) in the panel cfgThats what I do...Some planes have a bad perspectivelooking forward...I'll tweak em so the horizonis about halfway up the window if sitting on the ground.Usually, you'll have a decent approach view as long asyou don't get *too* slow. Most all the boeings I run, I don't have to adjust on landing. But the concord....:/I'd crank the seat 4 notches when landing that bad boy.But, that true to real life in that thing, with thedrop nose. MK

[N562Z 4]

William:I remember my very brief hour in the 747-400 full motion simulator at the AVSIM convention in Denver one year ago: In the captain's chair, with the seat properly adjusted, I had absolutely NO PROBLEM seeing the runway over the nose on takeoff or landing, it was truly a most awesome view. Unlike in flight simulator, where this perspective is very subjectively defined by the people who created your panel. In general, I find the view to be too high, and have to make the adjustments you describe to create a more realistic vantage point on approach. The exception to this is the PMDG 737, a wonderful add-on, but one in which I find the over-the-nose view to be set too LOW, that is, I see too much runway and not enough horizon - especially bothersome on the takeoff roll. I usually shift UP a few clicks when flying this aircraft.One other thing, as Allcott aludes to in his response, is to practice the particular relationship that, once visual on approach, the runway occupies in your windscreen. To get a quick idea of what this should look like, take the 777 or 747 up around the pattern of your favorite or local airport from a runway with an ILS approach. Use APPROACH mode to capture and fly the ILS for you and notice, with full landing flaps, proper fuel load, and correct approach airspeed set in the autothrottle, where the autopilot positions the nose, and where the runway tends to "hold still" in the windscreen. After you do this a few times, you'll remember, for each aircraft you like to fly, the approximate position you'll have to hold the nose, in terms of speed, flaps, and trim, to keep the runway in that desired position, and the aircraft descending nicely down the glideslope. Eventually, it becomes intuitive, and you can fly all of them by hand. Also notice how speed controls pitch and how pitch controls airspeed. Try the exercise again, only this time, you manage the throttle. Watch as your nose continues to pitch up with increased flap extension. Counteract this with more power, or additional flap, both of which will pitch the nose down to your desired pitch attitude, and at the desired approach speed. Good luck, and I hope that helped.regards,http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:GuIf...omestead/imagesAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

[Guest william273]

Thanks guys for your replies. alex, what you mention is exactly what i've been doing, using the autopilot and approach mode to see exactly how it's supposed to look. unfortunetly, it's not what i want to see, which is nothing. when on final in approach mode and all tanks 50% or less the autopilot tries to follow the glideslope and i'm controlling the throttle, which could be the problem, trying to stay around 150 knots or so but can't see the runway at all, at any time during the approach. i've tried different speeds like 180, 190 and get the same results. the pitch does seem to high but is on the glide slope but can't see the runway. would you mind terribly, trying it in the default 747 and fly a pattern or whatever and use an ILS and use the autopilot approach mode and let me know if you can see it? or hand fly it and try to stay on the glide slope and see the runway without raising the seat? if you can do that PLEASE tell me exactly what you're doing. i'm under the impression i am missing something somewhere and that i should be able to see the runway without raising the seat. i could be wrong but i want to make sure before i commit to doing that. thanks, william

[Wolfko 0]

If you do not see the runway during the approach with a default 747, then you are either too heavy or too slow or you do use not enough flaps or it is a combination of these 3 reasons. This is also valid for the default 777 and the 737 as much as for other FS airliners.So if your plane is configured correctly, there is no reason to use "shift+enter" etc.Wolfgang

[Guest william273]

alex, just reread your post again and saw where you mentioned you have to make some changes yourself for your view over the panel too so i assume that's what needs to be done like what everyone's been telling me. i have the PS Classic 737 analog panel and can see fine during the approach. maybe i will just fly aircraft no bigger than the 737 until i get a handle on raising the seat or using an alternative view like some that were mentioned. i don't normally fly the default heavies anymore since i learned how to install addon aircraft and panels but the cessnas and king air 350 i like pretty much. i use the default heavies for test flights sometimes and that's about it. thanks again everyone. william