Flight Simulator and Real World Logo's

[Guest Paul Heaney]

I'm glad I saw this thread, it shows that I'll never be buying a PSS Product!Not very nice tactics, by those guys.I'll never understand why someone charges for a repaint. To do so, is dispicible.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Paul, you might also consider the price of the aircraft though. It's real low. I don't need all the liveries so I got away with the plane and 3 liveries for about 30.00 USD. It's all in how you look at it.

[rightseat 277]

That isn't a very good business strategy to lose business from many customers just to have this pesky, and in my opinion extremely snobby repaint charge. What sense does it make to lose the full purchase price from someone just to make a little extra on a repaint? Someone should fire their business consultant. :-smooch

[Guest vas_yan]

Since we are in such a pro consumer mood today why don't we also invite the really big players, such as Boeing and EADS, over here and show them exactly what most add on developpers are doing i.e. making money by simulating their work and using their companies' branding. I am pretty certain their lawyers will find a way to make themselves appear useful to their companies althewhile screwing this hobby for good.Let me also remind you that even freeware repaints could be violating copyright protection. Today the airlines see the whole thing as free publicity, tomorrow who knows. As someone else said, just keep it quiet and cosy in this community and nobody gets harmed, ok? And remember people, we are dealing with PSS, not the frigging Airbus Industrie (and may I add, lucky us...).Regards,

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

That last line is absolute rubbish, actually. A UP license is free for non-commercial use and they give you a hefty kit of reference materials to boot, logos, colour samples, fonts...But I wouldn't know anything about it, seeing as my MSTS group is in the process of obtaining one...Other railways require licenses too. CP Rail and CN both do, and CP offers even more perks...http://www8.cpr.ca/cms/English/General+Pub...ves/default.htmDepending on the corporation, licensing can be a VERY wortwhile investment for EVERYONE involved.

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

An interesting conversation to say the least.Remember that this kind of policy is nothing new, it's been done.I can think of several groups that have had similar pay repaint/restricted user paint policies in the past, but I can't recall them getting any support from the community.Actually, I seem to remember them being bashed a lot for it.No, actually, not all usage of logos without permission is against the law. The freeware clause is actually relevant under fair use laws, when money is involved it does become another matter. Actually, licensing can actually lead to some nice reference materials directly from the corporation (see UP for example).Eh, to each their own. I wish PSS much luck in either case, though I'm not much a 777 person, myself.

[Guest adam_stanger]

What? No honor among thieves?

[Guest]

>>Let me also remind you that even freeware repaints could be>violating copyright protection. Today the airlines see the>whole thing as free publicity, tomorrow who knows. >This has been claimed before and it has absolutely no legal backing to it. The only sidestep a lawyer could use, would be to say avsim is benefiting by more ad revenue from a copywrited repaint on their website. Otherwise, if it's a free artists enterpretation of an airline, there is no way you can win in court. At least under US laws.But about PSS changing their policy, thats good news, glad to see users will be able to repaint whatever airline they want.

[Guest vas_yan]

"Otherwise, if it's a free artists enterpretation of an airline"Is this fair use? I am not familiar with the US legal system but fair use must be a last resort defence since one actually admits infringement and then prays for the best (not a good start when its a case of Poor Repainter vs X Really Big Airline Company). In addition I believe this doctrine favours informational, educational, critical etc. copies rather than artistic, creative or expressive copying of original work.As for sidesteps, how about a repaint of poor quality that damages the company's image?Regards,

[Guest Erick_Cantu]

It IS fair use, and if the airline was to actually sue you, there is no way they could legally win.They CAN, however, keep the suit going for longer than you could afford to pay legal fees.

[Guest vas_yan]

If you say so. I wouldn't like to be the one trying it though.Btw, why would you need a license to repaint trains and not planes?

[Guest]

There is no legal backing to block any work, whether a simulation airplane or train, by a company, claiming copywrite violations. Now, if you want to fight against an endless supply of yes sir lawyers with nothing better to do, good luck with that. But as long as you aren't making any money from this artistic creation, you legally are allowed to do it.

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

im behind you on this one... i support your idea's and thoughts..

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

the mans gotta point eagle...

[Trans_27 Pilot Chase 59]

>> You buy THEIR product you abide by THEIR RULES. Its that easy.key word there, THEIR RULES! notice how its not a law, so why should they create such a monopoly over whether you get to fly the airline you want or not. Not everyone has money running out the ears like a few people here that insist that you pay for those textures.1#if an artists takes HIS time and creates textures from scratch, why should he be unable to do what he wants with them? Including making them freeware.2#this is their "rule" and untill this is a law, i see no need to abide by it. What will they do if i paint the continental peter max on the 772 and upload it here at avsim? take me to court for posting my own artwork as freeware?come on guys, this is the screwed up corner of our hobby. PSS has done nothing but become a pain in the a.ss to me and next to that, loose a potential customer untill their policy is revised.Ill just hold out for the FeelThere... They let you paint what you want, and let you do what you want with it... PSS isnt the dictator of a country... I live in the usa, and i bet if you get into detail with the laws, etc etc, you will find out that they cant do this...This is simple, its your artwork, not theirs, do what you want with it...just my 2 cents... really wanted to speak my mind on this...now, im done blowing steam...take it easy fella's!