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If I manage to master high-end add-on planes, would I be able to fly them in real world?

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Perhaps the answer to the question can be borrowed from Reverend Lovejoy (Simpsons reference).

 

"Oh, short answer, 'yes', with an if. Long answer, 'no', with a but."

 

Great one, I'll remember that one!

 

Ahhh, The Simpsons, always providing appropriate quotes in every real life situation, haha

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Jaime Beneyto

My real life aviation and flight simulation videos [English and Spanish]

System: i9 9900k OC 5.0 GHz | RTX 2080 Super | 32GB DDR4 3200MHz | Asus Z390-F

 

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The same thread over and over again.

 

I always say YES. A properly trained flight sim pilot can fly a real, highly-automated aircraft provided that ALL CONDITIONS ARE OPTIMAL (aircraft in perfect condition, perfect weather, straight-forward ILS approach etc.).

 

In the end flying a big jet is all energy management, programming and procedures. All of which can be learnt on a high-fidelity simulation. Pilots are there basically for if anything goes wrong or not as planned.

 

When it comes to Stick&Rudder flying, then definitely not. This requires real world practice.

Mmm, not accurate or legal, Wishful thinking while at altitude will kill you and all souls on board. There is a reason that entertainment title simulation users are NOT allowed to takoff in even a lowly 150 w/out a CFI aboard. :nea:

 

The Simpsons remark is funny and cements the idea that folks can fantasize but not be able to perform to a standard. Life is analog, NOT digitally simulated. :wink:


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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I caught up on reading this thread thinking someone might have been widely acclaimed for revealing new and interesting ideas about hypothetical accomplished and talented PC pilots (like you and me) flying a real jet transport and landing it safely...

 

Nope, not yet!

 

Still hoping, so will be back in a day or so. :)

 

Kind regards,

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I have to say, some people are taking the question very literally and to its extremes.

 

I don't think anybody (least of all the OP) has suggested that it would be legal for an unqualified flight simmer to fly any sort of aircraft, that MSFS hours can somehow replace real flight training (apart from the poster who referenced an FAA experiment, which I think is fair enough), or that one could expect a simmer (or anybody else) to safely plan and execute an IFR flight in any sort of aeroplane from startup to shutdown.

 

What I think the OP was really asking when he asked "could I fly the aeroplane" (and what most people with no interest in aviation, when they find out about my simming, mean when they ask "could you fly a real plane") was essentially -- "will I be able to point it in the right direction when the instructor says "you have control"?"

 

The answer to that, from my own experience, is absolutely yes. Actually flying a light aeroplane is, from a purely mechanical point of view, not that challenging (at least I didn't find it so), and in many respects easier than MSFS as you have far more cues available to you. At the age of 14 I was flying aerobatics for real: I obviously had an instructor sat next to me, and I wouldn't have got in to the Red Arrows by any means, but I could do passable loops and rolls and fly a circuit without falling out of the sky.

 

That does not mean that there is not much, much more to being a pilot or to being able to plan and execute a flight in any sort of equipment safely and in accordance with the law. But the actual 'poling' bit? In a light aircraft at least, for the most part there is no reason why a simmer shouldn't find it reasonably intuitive based on their sim experiences. They would obviously not be able to fly perfectly, fly in every flight regime or weather condition, and as the vast majority of sim pilots are 'self-taught' then there will be various bad habits, some more dangerous than others. There will be a lot to learn and there are a lot of differences. But MSFS, coupled with reading some reputable (real-world) publications and speaking to some reputable people, can also help demonstrate and appreciate of many basic principles -- effects of controls, the basic principles of lift, weight, thrust and drag, the basic idea that power + attitude = performance -- even more so when it comes to the basic principles of instrument flying, radio navigation, orientation and tracking using the VOR and ADF etc.

 

To put it another way, if you sat someone who'd never driven a car before in front of a PC with a steering wheel, a full set of three pedals and an H-pattern gearstick and gave them a driving simulator, would they have a reasonable shot of being able to physically drive a real car given sufficient practice on the simulator? I would say so. Would they be safe to drive on the road solo, or ready to take a driving test? Of course not.

 

Jet transports? I have no idea.


Simon Kelsey

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One thing I've gleaned from this thread is that I reckon the simmer WILL have a better idea on how soon everyone dies...


Mark Robinson

Part-time Ferroequinologist

Author of FLIGHT: A near-future short story (ebook available on amazon)

I made the baby cry - A2A Simulations L-049 Constellation

Sky Simulations MD-11 V2.2 Pilot. The best "lite" MD-11 money can buy (well, it's not freeware!)

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Simon, the car driving sim analogy holds no water. Why? Because it ignores the third dimension of "altitude" which is the real threat to "life and limb".

That sir is the crux of the matter for many reading this thread... :wink:

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Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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That sir is the crux of the matter for many reading this thread... :wink:

But surely there is room for differences of opinion. There will be misunderstandings, but as Simon has pointed out, there are different ways of interpreting what was meant by the question, which opens the discussion up for debate, if not agreement.

 

And by this, I do not mean that opinions which ignore the hard work and requisite training be given equal standing with those that pinpoint how essential these acquired skills are to being a competent pilot.

 

I mean that opinions which state that a simmer can, as Simon said, point and fly, not be attacked as if they implied 1000 hours' experience on a sim are equal to 1000 hours' in the real aircraft. We can't reasonably hope to have meaningful conversation when we deny what one person meant, and substitute it for what we think they meant.


R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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Opinions of everyone involved are expressed in this thread and mine in the quote you've posted. I've made no attack on anyone personally.

Disagree if you like, but please refrain from introducing an argument where none exists.. :wink:


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Opinions of everyone involved are expressed in this thread and mine in the quote you've posted. I've made no attack on anyone personally.

Disagree if you like, but please refrain from introducing an argument where none exists.. :wink:

Ron, I was in no way suggesting that you did make an attack on anyone, on the contrary, I think your conduct in here is exemplary.

 

Edit:

 

You know what, disregard, I do not wish to waste anyone's time on here further. I mean the above sincerely, and wish to leave it at that now.

 

Best wishes.

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R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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Haha, human nature occasionally devolves to less than genteel discussion. Lord knows we have all been subject to such. Here's hoping this thread does not.. :wink:


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Haha, human nature occasionally devolves to less than genteel discussion. Lord knows we have all been subject to such. Here's hoping this thread does not.. :wink:

I was thinking about making a comment about polite bickering and human nature, but instead, I'd like to sign off on a lighter note, I have a note on the back of the door to my study, it reads simply:

 

'Don't you just hate it when your superpowers exist only in your head.'

 

It's is there as a self reprimand for when I have acted foolishly, and an encouragement to try harder.

 

Take care, and all the best.

  • Upvote 2

R. Francois Myburgh

 

"I have made a ceaseless effort not to ridicule, not to bewail, not to scorn human actions, but to understand them."

Baruch Spinoza (because to quote Bertrand Russell would have been offensive)

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Offended by humour ... of all things imaginable.

 

 

You mistakenly assumed that simply because my post followed yours I was somehow making a direct comment to you. 

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Simon, the car driving sim analogy holds no water. Why? Because it ignores the third dimension of "altitude" which is the real threat to "life and limb".

 

That sir is the crux of the matter for many reading this thread... [ :wink:]

 

 

Close, I'd say, Ron... it doesn't hold water, but substitute "altitude" for what gets it there - the wing.

 

Get rid at the outset of the idea that the airplane is only an air-going sort of automobile. It isn't. It may sound like one and smell like one, and it may have been interior-decorated to look like one; but the difference is -- it goes on wings.

 

And a wing is an odd thing, strangely behaved, hard to understand, tricky to handle. In many important respects, a wing's behavior is exactly contrary to common sense. On wings it is safe to be high, dangerous to be low; safe to go fast, dangerous to go slow. ... And -- most spectacular contrariness of all -- in emergencies, when the airplane is sinking toward the ground in a "mush" or falling in a stall or spin, and you are afraid of crashing into the ground, the only way to keep it from crashing is to point its nose down and dive at the ground, as if you wanted to crash!

 

It is largely this contrariness of the airplane that makes flying so difficult to learn. For flying *is* difficult to learn -- let nobody tell you otherwise. The accident record proves it, and so does the number of men barred from flight training or eliminated from training for lack of aptitude. What makes flying so difficult is that the flier's instincts -- that is, his most deeply established habits of mind and body -- will tempt him to do exactly the wrong thing. In learning other arts that are comparable to piloting -- sailing , for instance -- skills, ideas, habits must be developed where there were none before. In learning the art of piloting, much carefully learned behavior, many firmly held ideas must first be forgotten and cleared out of the way, must actually be reversed!

 

And it is largely because of this contrariness to common sense that the conventional airplane sometimes requires "nerve" from its pilot. Again, let no one tell you that this is not so. There are situations in flying when he who "ducks," he who flinches, is lost. The most important example is the recovery from a stall at low altitude -- getting that stick forward and pointing the nose at the ground; that does require courage, and no two ways about it. But there are many lesser examples as well. One of the government manuals on flying puts it that the pilot must learn not to give in to his instinct of self-preservation, but to substitute for it carefully trained reactions. That is only a very polite way of saying "guts."

 

From all this it might seem that learning to fly the conventional airplane must necessarily be mostly a matter of drill, like animal training, like making a dog not eat when he wants to eat, making him jump through a flaming hoop when he does not want to jump. And in fact, there is much of animal training in our flight training methods, at present, necessarily: for you simply cannot go against your common sense, against your most powerful instincts, except by drill, and more hard drill.

Wolfgang Langewiesche - "Stick & Rudder"

 

If y'all think you can get this kind of training solely from a computer simulation like FSX... you see something in it that I don't.

 

-Rob

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Spectacular quote Rob! :cool:


Mark Robinson

Part-time Ferroequinologist

Author of FLIGHT: A near-future short story (ebook available on amazon)

I made the baby cry - A2A Simulations L-049 Constellation

Sky Simulations MD-11 V2.2 Pilot. The best "lite" MD-11 money can buy (well, it's not freeware!)

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