PF3 V ProATC X

[GSalden 4,654]

Do those programs also support existing flightplans which can be loaded...

I use Prosim cockpit suite and it has it's own flight planner.

 

Or PFPX flight plans that can be loaded right away?

 

Thanks

[nam1394 10]

Do those programs also support existing flightplans which can be loaded...

I use Prosim cockpit suite and it has it's own flight planner.

Or PFPX flight plans that can be loaded right away?

Thanks

Both of them support PFPX. In case of proatcx, you need to copy the flight plan text and paste it in its planner.

[qqwertz 770]

Both of them support PFPX. In case of proatcx, you need to copy the flight plan text and paste it in its planner.

I can load a PFPX generated .pln plan file into Pro-ATC. Works very nicely.

 

Peter

[nam1394 10]

I can load a PFPX generated .pln plan file into Pro-ATC. Works very nicely.

 

Peter

Great, it is just that I have not tried in a while. They must have fixed it in an update without me knowing.

[GSalden 4,654]

Using PFPX I can make a flightplan which can be loaded by PF3 .

PF3 will be voice controlled.

Prosim Utils can be used to load the PFPX flightplan into the Prosim CDU .

 

This should make it all work..

 

Suggestions are welcome.

[nealmac 260]

Aside from a few demos ProATC is the only one I've used. For the most part it works well, but as already mentioned it doesn't come without it's flaws.

 

I'll try and sum up my experience with as few words as possible.

 

PATC procedures are about as real as you can get in a sim environment (other than live ATC such as VATSIM obviously). We are going to have to accept that automated ATC will always have it's limitations that take the "realness" experience away, but like I said, the procedures themselves are pretty realistic. While it does have some bugs, with a bit of careful planning beforehand a lot of them can be eliminated. I use PFPX to create flightplans. I export from PFPX as a PLN file and this can be imported into PATC. However I noticed the PATC seems to add extra waypoints so before flying I generally have to make sure everything matches so the flightplan I enter in the FMC is an exact match for PATC. Another bug is late instructions, like being cleared to a waypoint I've already been to. This is a rarity though. There has also been occasions where clearance delivery wont grant me initial clearance, but a quick restart will solve this. Callsigns are another big problem (for example Aer Lingus isn't being referred to as "Shamrock" etc but you can download voice packs that fix this. While we're talking about voices, the default background chatter is terrible. Flying in Australia you will hear chatter from British airspace. Again, there are background chatter files which can be downloaded and saved in a certain folder structure that will fix this. There is also no voice activation built in. Key commands only (at least for now). It's also expensive at 50 quid. And it only gets updated once a year, and while it's a BIG update, if there's any minor bugs, you just know you're going to have to wait another year. Also it's IFR only, with no plans for VFR to be implented 

 

That's the "bad" stuff out of the way. Like I said, in terms of realism its very realistic. It recognises SIDS and STARS. It has a co-pilot function and check lists which can be customised. It has a zoomable moving map. All airports and runways have a lot of information (elevations, transition levels etc)and can be customised if you find any discrepancies. It's very VERY easy to use. There is a new update currently out which is being tested by a BETA team, so now is actually probably a good time to be buying it.

 

All in all, while it has a lot of problems it works well most of the time for me. Slowly but surely it is getting to where it should be. Because of the way it's set up, it has the potential to be the best ATC addon out there.

[Bob Scott 7,714]

Thank all for the responses so far. I mainly fly GA but often IFR

 

Pro-ATC/X is focused largely on tubeliner flying...for example, callsigns for many common non-airline aircraft aren't there.  I have most of the ATC add-ons and each has significant strengths and weaknesses compared to the others.  I change up which one I use just to keep things from being too canned (I am a long-time Radar Contact user...it's still my favorite, but it's good to not always do things the same way.)

 

Regards

[vololiberista 205]

This is the start of a flight from Sanya to Kai Tak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crpKtgPIptQ

 

Since this video in one of the many updates the ICAO runway designition was updated so that all runways less than 10 are not desgnated as "Runway 8" but as "Runway 08" for example.

 

 

And this is the end of the flight. This also includes entry into a published hold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3flqD_Ne6g

 

This is a very short IFR flight showing some essential elements of PF3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7K102jts0s

 

In addition a lot of PF3ers use it for VMC flying and IFR vectoring where it is used. I would say it is the most FAA and ICAO compliant of all the ATC programmes. As well as mentioned above supporting voice recognition.

And unlike ProAtc it does not use alpha character definitions for aircraft registrations or waypoints etc.

[Bobsk8 12,492]

This is the start of a flight from Sanya to Kai Tak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crpKtgPIptQ

 

Since this video in one of the many updates the ICAO runway designition was updated so that all runways less than 10 are not desgnated as "Runway 8" but as "Runway 08" for example.

 

 

And this is the end of the flight. This also includes entry into a published hold.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3flqD_Ne6g

 

This is a very short IFR flight showing some essential elements of PF3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7K102jts0s

 

In addition a lot of PF3ers use it for VMC flying and IFR vectoring where it is used. I would say it is the most FAA and ICAO compliant of all the ATC programmes. As well as mentioned above supporting voice recognition.

And unlike ProAtc it does not use alpha character definitions for aircraft registrations or waypoints etc.

 

 

 looked at the manual for this program and can't find anything about updating Airac. Are you forced to use an outdated version?  

[tf51d 284]

 looked at the manual for this program and can't find anything about updating Airac. Are you forced to use an outdated version?  

PFE/3 does not use Airac data. You include the SID/STAR in your flightplan at preflight, tell it transition points. ATC will not complain about being off course passed that point, allowing you to fly your approach. From that point you can fly 360's and ATC won't care. When you reach a predetermined  distance from the airport (FAF), PFE/3 will vector you for final. This is basically the same way RC4 approached this. PATC on the other hand do use data updated through Navigraph and assigns approaches dynamically and expects you to fly them as defined, including altitude constraints which it honors, or it will vector you back on course if you stray away from it.

[Bobsk8 12,492]

PFE/3 does not use Airac data. You include the SID/STAR in your flightplan at preflight, tell it transition points. ATC will not complain about being off course passed that point, allowing you to fly your approach. From that point you can fly 360's and ATC won't care. When you reach a predetermined  distance from the airport (FAF), PFE/3 will vector you for final. This is basically the same way RC4 approached this. PATC on the other hand do use data updated through Navigraph and assigns approaches dynamically and expects you to fly them as defined, including altitude constraints which it honors, or it will vector you back on course if you stray away from it.

 

How can it be realistic when you have a sid -star assigned  before you even get clearance? That is never done in the real world. 

[vololiberista 205]

 looked at the manual for this program and can't find anything about updating Airac. Are you forced to use an outdated version?  

No!

I use Online Flightplanner which itself connects to routefinder which always uses the latest airac cycle.

http://onlineflightplanner.org/

It creates fpls in many different formats too.

How can it be realistic when you have a sid -star assigned  before you even get clearance? That is never done in the real world. 

Except that almost always the SID is known beforehand from a specific runway. And likewise a STAR to a specific runway from your direction will also be known. These are all published and can be assigned to the relevant runways.

Pro Atc and PFPX often assign incorrect SIDs and STARs.

 

 

That is never done in the real world.

There is no element of guesswork or randomness in assigning SIDs and STARs so in almost all cases the assignment is already known before the clearance is given. It takes just a few seconds to assign a SID or STAR to a relevant runway in PF3.

 

All SIDs and STARs are published and airlines often elect to fly a specific SID for example. ATC can change that but they rarely do unless there is good reason. So it is done in the real world to programme your FMC with the expected SIDs and STARs and only change them if ATC actually give you a different one. So in that respect PF3 is spot on.

 

When you programme your FMC you also set up your expected SID at least. And then only change it if the clearance differs. Which it rarely does.

 

Test example---- Fly from LIPZ to LOWI. What SID will you be assigned by Proatc or PFPX from runway 04R? If you are not given the ROKIB 6J then it is wrong. There is another SID but it is only used for flights not crossing the Alps and for when Treviso is closed.

[tf51d 284]

How can it be realistic when you have a sid -star assigned  before you even get clearance? That is never done in the real world. 

Just to be clear which one are you referring to? PF3 or PATC. If PATC, the way it works, is you load the FP into the PATC interface, You can either load a predetermined route like from Flightaware or another FP program, or it can even build one itself. When you start FS/PATC, when you request clearance it will tell you the expected runway for departure and the expected departure procedure, based on current weather conditions. There is an option in PATC to include the procedure in it's flightplan if you don't use a FMC equipped aircraft, like default, or not to for one that it and you setup yourself, like PMDG. Once you get clearance, it creates a company route you can load in the FMC (PMDG Aerosoft, QW) or you can of course manually enter it if you like. At this point you can see the expected arrival runway/Star assignment in PATC's Flightplan info menu, also based on current conditions. You can then preload this in the FMC if you like, note as in real life this can change if weather conditions warrants. When ready for departure you ask for pushback then taxi clearance. After takeoff you fly the departure procedure, ATC will generally assign step climbs according to any defined altitude restrictions in the procedure. There is options to change altitude or skipping waypoints enroute if you want. At TOD or close to it, you'll be assigned the first step descent. Note You can force the initial descent yourself, if it's too late or you want an early descent. Once done though you are committed, So if you accidentally initiate it early on your pretty much out of luck. Before entering the STAR entry waypoint, you'll be turned over to approach where you'll get your approach clearance including STAR procedure, again based on current conditions. Descents will again adhere to defined alt restrictions. When you get near the airport you'll get your landing clearance first directed to your runway entry waypoint, then landing clearance.

[Bobsk8 12,492]

 

 

Except that almost always the SID is known beforehand from a specific runway. And likewise a STAR to a specific runway from your direction will also be known. These are all published and can be assigned to the relevant runways.
Pro Atc and PFPX often assign incorrect SIDs and STARs.
 

But when the weather changes which happens more often than not, the runway can change, and approach changes.  That is why stars are assigned by approach control. I learned to fly in KFLL and can even begin to count the times that runways were switched from 9L to 27R or 13-31 sometimes more than once in a 1 hour period. 

Just to be clear which one are you referring to? PF3 or PATC. If PATC, the way it works, is you load the FP into the PATC interface, You can either load a predetermined route like from Flightaware or another FP program, or it can even build one itself. When you start FS/PATC, when you request clearance it will tell you the expected runway for departure and the expected departure procedure, based on current weather conditions. There is an option in PATC to include the procedure in it's flightplan if you don't use a FMC equipped aircraft, like default, or not to for one that it and you setup yourself, like PMDG. Once you get clearance, it creates a company route you can load in the FMC (PMDG Aerosoft, QW) or you can of course manually enter it if you like. At this point you can see the expected arrival runway/Star assignment in PATC's Flightplan info menu, also based on current conditions. You can then preload this in the FMC if you like, note as in real life this can change if weather conditions warrants. When ready for departure you ask for pushback then taxi clearance. After takeoff you fly the departure procedure, ATC will generally assign step climbs according to any defined altitude restrictions in the procedure. There is options to change altitude or skipping waypoints enroute if you want. At TOD or close to it, you'll be assigned the first step descent. Note You can force the initial descent yourself, if it's too late or you want an early descent. Once done though you are committed, So if you accidentally initiate it early on your pretty much out of luck. Before entering the STAR entry waypoint, you'll be turned over to approach where you'll get your approach clearance including STAR procedure, again based on current conditions. Descents will again adhere to defined alt restrictions. When you get near the airport you'll get your landing clearance first directed to your runway entry waypoint, then landing clearance.

 

I was talking about PF3.  I am aware of PATC procedures, since I am a beta tester for that program. 

[vololiberista 205]

 

But when the weather changes which happens more often than not, the runway can change, and approach changes.  That is why stars are assigned by approach control. I learned to fly in KFLL and can even begin to count the times that runways were switched from 9L to 27R or 13-31 sometimes more than once in a 1 hour period.

Really? I never knew that! The runway can change if the weather changes. Wow! Amazing!

Look, as Comander on an aircraft it is your legal duty to know what the weather is doing and whether it is likely to change. And also local noise abatement procedures often require runway changes.

You don't just sit and wait for ATC to tell you. You plan for it. In Europe it is a legal requirement.

Almost always SIDs are just confirmed by ATC and likewise STARs. All SIDs and STARs are published and are the only ones you can use for a specific runway. Just make sure you can reprogramme your FMC in time or do it in advance.

SIDs and STARs are published and you choose the appropriate ones for your route and weather conditions. ATC will only differ if there is good reason.

 

It is a total fallacy that aircrew rely entirely on ATC for SID STAR allocation. They already know what SID they will be using and all ATC do is to confirm. Likewise STARS lead from a waypoint that is on your fpl to a specific runway. The crew alreadt know that and should be prepared.

ATC have no part in the production of flightplans.