New NVidia Titan-X (Pascal) plus FlyElise-nl Warp software - WOW!

[Robert McDonald 167]

This is the exact setup Im looking to implement.  I want 3 monitors as undistorted as possible and pushing 60 degrees.  

 

My question is... Im running a i74990k at 4.7 (over clocked) and a GTX 970.

Im getting ready to replace the card and had planned on at GTX 1080 probably the EVGA FTW.

Will a single 1080 handle this setup or do I need to spend the extra on a Titan XP?

 

Thanks

Bob

 

Hi Bob,

The reason Mark has little distortion is he has very very small view angles.  That was unacceptable to me.  I will say first, that the Titan X (Pascal) which you describe as Titan XP, in my mind, is a MUST, and that is ONLY if you are going to run 1920 x 1080p Monitors.  Even the mighty XP with over 7 Billion transistors can't handle triple 4k displays (according to NVidia).  I was nervous purchasing it vs the 1080, but glad I did.  Still, you won't be able to max sliders in P3D.  Why?  The total real estate being rendered across those 3 displays is over 6 million pixels.  If you are using look-ahead anti-aliasing (MSAA) you are asking the gpu to render each frame 4 times (4x) and 'average' them out prior to drawing them.  Switching to FXAA and turning off MSAA was a boost to frames.  You will notice in extremely heavy weather and high-density scenery (particularly add ons) that frames will drop.  I am able to stay above 40 in most situations, and much of the time system showing over 100.

 

Yes, View Groups is how Fly Elise does all its magic, and even LM states that the Immersive Display Pro greatly speeds up the process.  You first use Fly Elise LCD Designer Pro to enter the monitor dimensions and bezel sizes (all in metric). Choose your angles (60, 0 and -60).  Also you must use a tape measure to measure distance from your eye to the monitors.  Then use LCD Designer Pro to EXPORT the view files (you will choose a temporary folder to export to.  IMPORTANT:  Do NOT export directly to your P3D folder).  Then you copy the ViewGroups.XML file from the temp folder you made into your  (drive letter)\UserName\App Data\Roaming\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3d v3 folder.  

 

Finally start up Immersive Display Pro and set up your 3 monitors, then left-click on each monitor icon within IDP one by one choose EXTERNAL CALIBRATION and import each individual camera file from your temp folder into IDP and click the SAVE button at the bottom of the IDP working area screen.  

 

Start up P3D and you will only see 1 of your three monitors with an image.  Right-click any blank part of your P3D screen (you are at an airport and looking out the window).  Choose View Groups and from the flyout choose LCD Designer Pro.  Your 3 screens should light up.  Note:  Immersive Display Pro MUST be running (you can minimize it) prior to flying in P3D to drive your 3 views.  The F4 key is your TOGGLE to display your P3D Menu un-warped vs. Immersive Display Pro warping ON.  With warping on, the P3D menu bar is difficult to read/use.  Pressing F4 temporarily suspends IDP so you can use the P3D menu.  When ready to resume flight, pressing F4 returns things to normal.  You can display your 3 monitors without a menu by pressing ALT+ENTER simultaneously.

 

You can tell if IDP is active or not because when ON all your lines will align perfectly across all 3 monitors (example runway and taxiway marking stripes).  When F4 toggle is used to temporarily disable IDP, your lines will NOT be perfectly aligned.

 

FlyElise is available as a FREE TRIAL so you can try before you buy, and their support is very good.  They have step-by-step manuals for their products which are a huge help.  The big thing is you do NOT use NV surround when you are using Fly-Elise Immersive Display Pro.  Mark is right, you WILL take a hit running 3 windowed views off ONE graphics card and ONE PC.  This is made worse if you are using a 3rd party plane such as PMDG.  Driving all the instruments on the PMDG (or other 3rd party) virtual cockpit is additional overhead for the GPU and CPU.  In my video you can see I have a virtual glass cockpit from Sim-Avionics on a STANDALONE (networked) all-in-one PC just below my exterior view screens.  There is a 3rd PC that is driving the avionics to that standalone glass panel.  That 3rd PC is running Sim-Avionics SERVER, the all-in-one is the display slave for Sim Avionics.

 

I was put onto this solution by a buddy who built a full-on 737NG nose sim in his (huge) garage.  He has the overhead and all the panels RW stuff from Boeing, and yes, it ALL works in P3D.  Yes, he is a rocket scientist in real life, and his project took like 12 years and a lot of investment to build.  He is using short-throw projectors in lieu of LCDs.

 

Hope some of this helps you.  I tried NV Surround, but was miserable with the distortion.  Also the side panels showed motion much faster than it would be in real life during sharp turns (because of the distortion).  I am VERY happy with my setup.  If you watch my video, there is an apparent bit of distortion on the left and right displays because the Cellphone Camera is behind me, not placed at my actual eyepoint.  In real flight, the views are STUNNING. 

 

Final thoughts - even though there are no borders showing on your displays in this methodology, you are still driving P3d in 3 (BORDERLESS) Windows, not one "giant" window as you would be in NVidia Surround mode.  That is why you need TitanXP.  Its a BUNCH of hard work.  I had the gen-1 Titan (The follow-on to the GTX 690) KEPPLER card, and even that was NOT ENOUGH to drive my current setup.  The Titan-XP (Pascal) is the call.  I would not go 1080.  

 

Bonus:  If you ever get involved in video editing, the Titan XP can render crazy fast in Adobe Premiere Pro CC using CUDA technology.  Sony Vegas not so much, my video shown in this thread took ALL NIGHT to render in VEGAS, while in Adobe Premiere it was done in just over 1 hour.  I do NOT overclock my Titan XP.  You will see a SIGNIFICANT jump in frames with the Titan XP much more than an overclock or upgrade of your CPU by far!  Hyperthreading OFF.

[LoRusso 0]

Thanks to Mark & Robert for your replies.

 

I believe Im going to wait another few weeks and get the Titan XP and go with the FlyElise solution. I just want it to work without to much messing about. I know that really doesn't happen but at least I can work with their support.

How large of a 1080p monitor do you recommend? I will be sitting just over arms length away from displays. I have a pit built but still fly VC's with some aircraft. I'm currently using a 47" Samsung. Is there a size that is just two large and starts to pixilate at that close of viewing.

 

Thanks again

Bob

[Robert McDonald 167]

Thanks to Mark & Robert for your replies.

 

I believe Im going to wait another few weeks and get the Titan XP and go with the FlyElise solution. I just want it to work without to much messing about. I know that really doesn't happen but at least I can work with their support.

How large of a 1080p monitor do you recommend? I will be sitting just over arms length away from displays. I have a pit built but still fly VC's with some aircraft. I'm currently using a 47" Samsung. Is there a size that is just two large and starts to pixilate at that close of viewing.

 

Thanks again

Bob

 

A big concern for you with triple displays revolves around overall display size AND how you will MOUNT the displays.  If you look at my video (in this thread) you will see 27" monitors by HP arrayed on my glass desk.  Sadly, these monitors DO NOT have VESA mounting holes, so I am FORCED to either drill holes for VESA mounts (not likely) or else set them atop my desk.  This works OK for 27's, but not at all for huge displays, be it 42, 55, 60 or whatever.  You are correct that the larger the display the distance between horizontal rows gets wider and wider until you become very much aware of those display lines!  Remember, you should NOT get a UHD (4K) group of arrays.  The new Titan can easily drive ONE of them, but NOT 3 of them, this is stated directly by Nvidia.  It's a math issue.  The higher the resolution, the MORE pixels need to be drawn every frame.  When frames are displaying at 100+ FPS (as they do on my system using 1080p displays) moving to UHD 4K means a HUGE workload increase!  Thus I recommend avoiding 4k unless you have 1 Titan driving EACH display. (3 Titans).  Now you're talking $3600 just for video cards, notwithstanding the power and heat requirements putting them all in one case would engender.  Another thought is refresh rate and how the monitors will look when offset from one another.  In the LCD world IPS has a much better viewing angle than 'conventional' LCD/LED panels.  My monitors refresh 60 fps and about 5ms refresh time.  Large commercial TV's may have longer refresh times, which can produce artifacts in fast motion playback.  That is the 'downside' of the giant LED tvs vs. Plasma.  Many "claim" a 120 hz refresh rate but that is a manipulated figure, I 'believe' they 'really' run at 60 fps.

 

When using the Fly-Elise method, I do NOT use V-Sync or V-Synch Half Refresh Rate.  The Titan is running much higher frames most of the time than 60 on my setup.

 

I can't really advise you on display maximum sizes, you would need to go into a store and stand the same distance from their monitors/LED Tv's and decide if that 'works' for you.  I recommend a store with a liberal return policy, such as a warehouse membership store, where you can obtain a full refund if the monitor/tv is not adequate for your needs.

 

You likely already know but the ONLY place you can get the Titan-X (PASCAL) GPU at present is from Nvidia themselves.  They frequently run out of stock, but seems like they get new availability pretty quickly, so you may need to check their site daily until they show stock available.  YES, you CAN get this fine GPU from SOME system builders (listed on the Nvidia site) but use extreme care if you buy elsewhere, you do NOT want the MAXWELL version (the prior Titan-X).  Nvidia SHOULD have thrown a P in the card name (for "Pascal") but they DID NOT.  Auction sites would be a less-than-ideal place to buy such a pricey card IMHO.  If you buy directly from Nvidia you are covered with their 3-year Warranty.  Generally off-channel suppliers especially "lists" or "auctions" become MURKY with respect to warranty claims.  Good luck!

[Robert McDonald 167]

Oh, I almost forgot.  Why buy the Titan-X (Pascal) over the 1080?

 

1.  Titan X has 12GB of VRAM, 1080 has only 8

2.  Titan X is 40% faster than 1080.  When you are at minimum frame rates, 40% better means:

 

If you are getting 20 FPS on your 1080 then Titan X 140% = 28 fps

If you are getting 30 FPS on your 1080 then Titan X  140% = 42 fps

If you are getting 40 FPS on your 1080 then Titan X  140% = 56 fps

 

So when you are in toughest conditions, the Titan X will render the same output 40% faster.  HUGELY important 'sometimes'.  Yes, it costs double.  However, you can't buy the 1080, decide it's not adequate, then upgrade to TitanX later... there would be costs involved.  Most GPUS are not returnable for refund warranty usually is REPLACEMENT ONLY.

 

Assuming you have a fast CPU the GPU itself is critically important, especially in multi-monitor single-PC setups.  All the other caveats about sliders, 3rd party virtual cockpits, heavy weather still apply.

 

To date, I have not seen ANY setup that can run P3D with EVERYTHING MAXED, including AI, Weather, Scenery Sliders, etc, etc, etc.  It's STILL a balancing act.  In my videos, NO cars, boats or Ai aircraft.  Sliders are NOT maxed. Orbx SoCal in use but all Orbx SoCal 'options' are UNTICKED.  Orbx Palm Springs all airport 'options' are OFF.

 

These caveats are multiplied (made more important) when you are driving triple monitors without NV Surround.

 

FYI.

[Robert McDonald 167]

IMPORTANT UPDATE for FlyElise users!

 

In version 3.4.9 of Prepar3D, LM has moved the ViewGroups.xml file from APPDATA (roaming) to the main Prepar3D folder, according to Fly Elise support.  FE support says copy your specific (exported from LCD Designer Pro) ViewGroups.xml to your main P3d v3 folder and you should then see LCD Designer Pro as your choice when you right click your P3D desktop and choose ViewGroups.  Remember also that Immersive Display Pro (also by Fly elise) must be running (it can be minimized) so your views are correct Geometrically.  Information herein provided by Nikola at Fly Elise-ng.

[Robert McDonald 167]

Fly Elise-NG support corrected my misunderstanding.  The ViewGroups.XML file you create within LCD Designer Pro needs to be copied from it's exported folder (that you created) to C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\ folder.  Note that this is NOT the folder where your P3D installation lives!  Before copying it, rename the 'current' ViewGroups.XML that is already in that folder to something like ViewGroups.OLD, so you can go back to Lockheed's version if you should desire to.  Upon starting P3D v 3.4.x, you will then correctly see LCD Designer Pro if you right click on your desktop within P3d and choose ViewGroups from the flyout menu.

 

Bonus:  In version 3.4 if you use ViewGroups, it will start up with ViewGroups active so all 3 of your monitors will display an image.  Remember too that Immersive Display Pro -must- be running (it can be minimized) so that your views will be geometrically correct.  IDP is the only program you need to purchase from FlyElise.  It is about $169 USD street.

[Moonwalker 0]

Hi Gerard

Greetings from Scotland

 

I think your movie clip showing the taxying is superb -

Regarding your outside view ,

(I tried sending a message to you but it won't send for some reason )

I have a wee question -

do you use a triple head to go for your 3 outside views ,or is it 3 separate inputs

Into your graphics card ?

I have the same set up as yourself with a TV on the left side and 2 monitors for the left fwd view .

Best regards

Dave

[GSalden 4,655]

Hi Dave,

 

I have 3 seperate views and do not use neither NVSurround nor a Matrox Triplehead.

 

On my desktop I have 5 batchfiles. Each one copies a different p3d.cfg into P3D :

- Fair + Light Cloudy Weather

- Overcast weather

- Overcast + Rain

- Night

- Foggy Night

 

From top to bottom has each one less heavy settings...

 

Make sure you have this tweak in your p3d.cfg file [TERRAIN]

UseGlobalTerrainView=True

 

LM :

By default, every camera has its own terrain view which requests texture and dem tiles near the camera to ensure that all cameras get a quality view of terrain. When tessellation is enabled, it is possible for cameras to share data and avoid the extra work required to manage multiple terrain views. For multi-view scenarios in which all views are near each other, it may be desirable to have views simply render the terrain tiles loaded by the default view. Setting this option to True will prevent all camera from creating a terrain view except for the default 3d view. This can help avoid texture flashing and terrain spikes that occur on some systems with multiple views and/or multiple video cards. This value can be overridden by the UseGlobalTerrainView entry in a given CameraDefinition allowing each camera to determine whether or not to create a terrain view. This setting will be engorged if Tessellation is not enabled.

 

Good luck !

 

Gerard

[Moonwalker 0]

Hi Folks

 

Greetings from Scotland

 

I totally agree with Gerard reference undocked views with the TV and 2 monitors .

I didn't need any software to get the views looking good .I simply followed Gerard's

instructions ,although I'm using fsx steam instead of prep3d .

 

I opened the fsx main screen on the front left monitor,then made a new view ,dragged

it to the left TV screen and did the same with the right front monitor then aligned each view .

No need for lcd pro or immersive display pro .

Thanks Gerard for the info on this topic

Regards

 

Dave

[Moonwalker 0]

Hi Gerard

 

Forgot to mention- I've been trying all sorts of ideas, reference the outside views .

I started with a matrox with 3 screens just at the front with no side monitors ,but the crabbing effect was

a nightmare on taxy ,take off and landing .

 

Then I tried 3 projectors connected to the matrox ,but again picture quality was not

good compared to a monitor ,then I came across your idea in the avsim forum by chance .

I still had 2 x24 inch monitors and a TV ,so decided to give it a go ,all I can say is it worked

out fantastic ,the emmersive experience is far superior than anything else I've tried.

My plan is to get 3 x 50 inch TVs and use the same method .

Thanks again Gerard

 

Dave

[GSalden 4,655]

You're welcome Dave.

Enjoy your flightsim.

[Moonwalker 0]

Thanks Gerard

Just a wee question I forgot to ask -

Is that the default scenery your using in prep3d or an addon ?

Regards

Dave

[GSalden 4,655]

Hi Dave,

 

It is photoscenery with custom AG and addon scenery...

 

Regards

[ammarmalhas 1]

A quick question if I may:

I am using 1 17" LCD monitor for the Instructor station and my normal Windows work, and 3 projectors (on a cylindrical screen) for P3D external view. My Windows Screen Resolution setup page shows all 4 displays I arranged (LCD at top and 3 projectors at bottom). The LCD is shown as number 1, the left projector is #4, the middle projector is #2 and the right one is #3, not sure why this is the case!

Now in P3D v3.4 in View Group Management there are DisplayID numbers under the Configuration tab/line and also under the 3 view lines in the view group tab/line that refer to the displays, should these numbers be the same used in the Windows Screen Resolution Setup page or what?

I also will be using Fly-Elise Immersive Calibration Pro to produce the viewgroup.xml file and Immersive Display Pro to do the warping.

Can someone pls tell me more about the DisplayID numbers and they should be? Do I change what IDP outputs?

Thanks.