Frankfurt (EDDF) ILS Aproach

[Juergen 7]

Hallo,

I have tried to fly several STAR's into EDDF runway 25R or 25L and could not get any DME display (only dashed lines).

For runway 25R frequency 109.75 was autoselected and that lined up to the right of the runway. I than flew the same approach with frequency 111.35 received DME information, but lined up to the left of the runway.

Then I loaded an updated airport scenery (which had the new runway) and flew the same approach again on rwy 25R, but could not capture the localizer or the glide slope (auto select frequency  109.75).

Also I would like to know what the meaning of the listed runways GLSX25R,GLSY25R, ILSX25R, ILSY25R AND ILSZ25R is?

What would be the proper approach arriving from RAMOB waypoint to runway 25 right or left?

Thanks for help

Juergen

 

[pcubine 143]

I have tried to fly several STAR's into EDDF runway 25R or 25L and could not get any DME display (only dashed lines).

Aerosoft's EDDF scenery has no DME. Most of your questions can be answered by referring to these charts - http://www.vacc-sag.org/airport/EDDF if you don't have a Navigraph Ultimate package. This document explains what GLS Approaches are - http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/techops/navservices/gnss/faq/laas/?print=go. See page 95 of the 777 Introduction for correct alignment. RAMOB is part of the UNOKO STARS. It is not an Initial or Final Approach Fix for any runway.

 

First and last names are required in all PMDG Forums - http://www.avsim.com/topic/458101-guidelines-for-participation-in-the-pmdg-forum-please-read/.

[Juergen 7]

Hallo Michael,

Thanks for trying to clarify some problems I am having. However, after your reply I am more confused than before.Please excuse the ignorance but I am still new to the sim game.

Who is Aerosoft that has no STARS? I downloaded a scenery file from Flyaway Scenery for EDDF (https://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/11270/afcad-file-for-eddf/) and that does not have DME in it? Also I flew the ROL25N approach from RAMOB, (deleted ETARU) to DF403, 411, 416, 426, 422, DF306, 307 to RWY 25R. ILS frequency 109.75 auto selected and again NO localizer, glide slope or DME.

Question: is the 109.75 the correct frequency? How can I get DME?

Here is a screenshot of the approach to EDDF 25R:

https://flic.kr/p/KycwbM

As you can see I was on a 3 deg. glideslope and still could not engage LOC nor APP modes.So if you see anything wrong, I would appreciate your help so I can understand the proper procedures.

Thanks for your quick response

Juergen Mader

[downscc 1,327]

Hello Juergen, Michael assumed you were using an add-on scenery from Aerosoft (who sells many scenery, airplanes and tools for flight simulation) and I would have too.  it is not unusual for an approach that is an ILS/DME in the real world to be missing the DME in the sim world.  I've also seen cases where a payware addon is missing the DME.  You can check if there is a DME in several ways, one is to open the flight sim map and select the airport and double click to open the information window on the airport.

 

The ILS and DME equipment on board the aircraft have nothing to do with the STAR.

 

The frequencies for ILS at EDDF have changed over the years. A current chart for EDDF ILSZ25R indicates 111.35 MHz is the ILS.  Check the flight sim map airport information to see what is actually in the simulator.  The ILS will be either ILS or ILS/DME.  You may have to manually set the ILS if the sim world is different from the real world because the current navdata is what is telling the 777 what it needs to automatically set the freq.  Also, current EDDF has three runways and today's 25R is new..., the old 25R is now 25C

 

I strongly recommend that you fly the tutorials for the PMDG 777.

[pcubine 143]

Here is a screenshot of the approach to EDDF 25R:

https://flic.kr/p/KycwbM

Unfortunately, I can't see the screenshot very clearly. 109.75 is the correct frequency for 25R and the heading is 248 degrees. You are about 15 miles from the airport. At EDDF you should have picked up the ILS signal about 25 mile from the airport. When the signal is picked up you should see the Identifier, on the PFD, for the ILS which is IFWR. Since you are 15 mile from the airport and not getting the Identifier, I would think it's time to purchase Aerosoft's EDDF so you don't have to worry about the frequencies being correct. I have landed at EDDF over 300 time and never had a problem. In fact, I am one and a half hours into an RJAA-EDDF flight right now, landing either 25L or 07R depending on the wind.

 

Why are you landing the 777 on 25R? The preferred landing runway at EDDF is 25L.

 

Thanks for your first and last name. Set it up so that is done automatically. Click on your user name in upper right corner, click on My Profile, click on Edit My Profile, click on Signature, in Edit Signature enter your first and last name, click save and your name will be on all of your posts.

[pcubine 143]

I just remembered a tool called ILSinspector at this site - http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html. Download it, decide what EDDF scenery you are going to use, install the scenery and then use ILS inspector to change the frequencies if they are incorrect in the scenery you are going to use. If you decide to go this way, I can give you the correct ILS frequencies in a later post.

[Juergen 7]

Hi Dan,

Thanks for quick reply.

I did fly the PMDG 777 tutorial to Dubai as well as both PMDG 737 tutorials. However, the tutorials are the perfect simworld and do NOT prepare you for the abnormalities like I am experiencing right now. I understand your comment about NAV data and flight sim data being different. I did find the airport information in FSX-SE. I took a screenshot of that data and it lists 9 rwy's: 7L,C,R; 25L,C,R as well as 18, 26L, 8R. 

https://flic.kr/p/L5Lb8G

In Google maps I can see rwy's 25 - 7 L,C,R as well as 18 (no entry) and no markings on 34. The ILS frequency for 25R is listed as 111.350 with a final heading of 249 degrees.

So if I understand you correctly, i will have to set the  ILS frequency manually to whats in the flightsim airport if the frequencey from the Navigraph AIRAC (ver. 1608) differs from the FSX-SE airport information? Is there a way to correct the frequency data in FSX to concur with the AIRAC cycle installed in the FMC? Also is there a way to correct the runways in FSX?

I understand now that I could not capture the localizer or the glide slope. I will fly the approach again with frequency 111.35 and see what happens.

Thanks

Hi Michael,

If you get a chance read Dan's reply as well as my reply to Dan.

This would explain why I did not pick up the localizer or glide slope. The frequency discrepancy would not let me arm the localizer nor the approach button.

I just saw you new post and will check it out.

Signature setup as per recommendation.

Thanks

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

So if I understand you correctly, i will have to set the  ILS frequency manually to whats in the flightsim airport if the frequencey from the Navigraph AIRAC (ver. 1608) differs from the FSX-SE airport information?

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Is there a way to correct the frequency data in FSX to concur with the AIRAC cycle installed in the FMC?

 

Sure - update the scenery. Download a new "AFCAD" file. AVSIM's file library should have at least a few to choose from.

 

 

 

Also is there a way to correct the runways in FSX?

 

Part of the above method of updating the scenery.

[Juergen 7]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the link. I downloaded and will use it to correct ILS, rwy and other data. Pretty nifty little program.

But what are the presently correct ILS frequencies for the runways in EDDF. FSX frequency is 111.350 and I guess the installed scenery has 109.75 which gets loaded into the FMC. I still don't understand if you look at my reply post to Dan why I have two frequencies -FSX-SE and scenery. I know for a fact, that 109.75 was auto selected into the FMC.

Here the screenshot of the ILS inspector for EDDF runway 25R

https://flic.kr/p/LwfYiM

Thanks for staying with me

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I still don't understand if you look at my reply post to Dan why I have two frequencies -FSX-SE and scenery.

 

When you install scenery, it overrides the default scenery. This may be why you're seeing both. The default EDDF is still "there," but it's being overridden by the add-on scenery when you're actually flying in the sim.

[BlueStar 323]

 

 

Is there a way to correct the frequency data in FSX to concur with the AIRAC cycle installed in the FMC? Also is there a way to correct the runways in FSX?

 

I highly recommend Ray Smith's freeware airports available in the AVSIM library.  They are very easy on frame rates and up-to-date.

 

blaustern

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

I highly recommend Ray Smith's freeware airports available in the AVSIM library.  They are very easy on frame rates and up-to-date.

 

Yeah. Definitely my go-to when I'm flying somewhere I don't otherwise have scenery for.

[Angelo Cosma 61]

I just remembered a tool called ILSinspector at this site - http://www.aero.sors.fr/navaids.html. Download it, decide what EDDF scenery you are going to use, install the scenery and then use ILS inspector to change the frequencies if they are incorrect in the scenery you are going to use. If you decide to go this way, I can give you the correct ILS frequencies in a later post.

 

Above, is a very handy tool. Thank you. 

[pcubine 143]

But what are the presently correct ILS frequencies for the runways in EDDF

Z07L - 111.75, Y&X07L - 110.3, 07C - 110.55, Z&X07R - 110.95, Z&X25L - 111.15, 25C - 111.55, Z25R - 111.35, X&Y25R 109.75. These are from Navigraph/LIDO charts currently I effect if I have copied them correctly. You will note there is no 18/36. It is takeoffs to the South only. To answer your question about scenery installing frequencies into the FMC. It doesn't happen. The FMC gets its frequencies from the NavData files that are downloaded monthly from Navigraph.

 

I notice Z07L and Z25R have a frequencies different than the X&Y07L and X&Y25R. I would stay away from any Z approaches to 07L or 25R. I have never seen a runway that has two ILS frequencies. I don't no if it's right or wrong.

 

Edit - According to data in the wpNavAPT.txt file, EDDF has two frequencies for both 07L and 25R each. This is one of the files that the FMC gets data from. It would be interesting to know what the add-on scenery for EDDF has.

[Juergen 7]

Hi All,

I just installed scenery from the avsim library for EDDF from Mark Aldridge (much better than what I had).

It lists the runways with ILS frequencies in the install description (see screenshot)

https://flic.kr/p/KzBLFp

He also lists two frequencies for 7L and 25R. So taken that into consideration with the autoloaded ILS frequency of 109.75 I should have captured loc and g/s!

As for Ray Smith scenery - could not find anything for EDDF.

Thanks again