fsx-ms Why do developers neglect rain/snow on windshield effects?

[Bjoern 1,153]

Hence, in order to implement something similar requires a lot of extra and custom coding by the developer for a "feature" that quite honestly isn't really all that important in the long run.

 

I have to disagree with you for once Bill. While animated rain may indeed be too much trouble to invest time on, at least a static bitmap can do a lot to enhance the flying experience, actually forcing you to use the wipers or turning your attention to the instruments or getting out of the rain in the first place.

 

 

 

I love the Duke. I would vote highly for this effect to be available with addons if it can be programmed and still allow my sim to run effectively. Mind you I now have a high end system. Wonder if this is a VAS hit!

Any texture you load into the simulator incurs a VAS hit. So if you have animated rain using 20 different bitmaps (that are displayed in a loop to invoke the illusion of moving rain) with each bitmap being 4 MB in size (2048x2048 pixel, DXT5 compression, no mip maps), the model will use an additional 80 MB of VAS. If you add a two speed wiper into the mix, which will require two additional bitmap variations to account for each speed setting, you'll end up with 240 MB of extra overhead in total. If you added that to, say, the PMDG 777 which is said to require 800 MB of VAS alone, one third of your available VAS would simply be wiped away (pun intended), leaving much too little for scenery and AI.

 

The more you trim the moving rain technique down by using lower resolution textures and less variety, you could end up with a more VAS efficient solution at the cost of potential complaints that the rain is too unrealistic.

 

 

Rain on windshields is a feature I'd like to see back in future FSX-based flight simulators based on shaders that automatically account for windscreen wipers. Dovetail uses this approach to great effect in its train simulators, so they might have the know-how to adapt it to the engine used in their upcoming flight simulator.

[n4gix 4,947]

Rain on windshields is a feature I'd like to see back in future FSX-based flight simulators based on shaders that automatically account for windscreen wipers. Dovetail uses this approach to great effect in its train simulators, so they might have the know-how to adapt it to the engine used in their upcoming flight simulator.

I was speaking of 'animated rain' of course, and your explication proved my point nicely. I personally disagree with the efficacy and desirability of 'static rain' even if the wipers create an illusion of wiping drops. :wink:

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the only viable option will be shader based rain animations. Even a relatively tiny developer such as SCS has very excellent "animated rain and wiper shaders" in their Euro Truck Simulator and American Truck Simulator. :Applause:

[Boeing or not going 578]

I was speaking of 'animated rain' of course, and your explication proved my point nicely. I personally disagree with the efficacy and desirability of 'static rain' even if the wipers create an illusion of wiping drops. :wink:

 

I agree wholeheartedly that the only viable option will be shader based rain animations. Even a relatively tiny developer such as SCS has very excellent "animated rain and wiper shaders" in their Euro Truck Simulator and American Truck Simulator. :Applause:

I do not have any programming knowledge, but with all the animation tricks developers have learned over the years for FSX/P3D, there must be some way to get a good effect into aircraft.

[n4gix 4,947]

I do not have any programming knowledge, but with all the animation tricks developers have learned over the years for FSX/P3D, there must be some way to get a good effect into aircraft.

I've invested nearly twenty years as a 'professional flightsim developer' and believe me, it is not a trivial task. When the supporting code is removed from the core simulation engine, it makes the task much more difficult and time consuming (aka: expensive), since a complete engine must be coded and made efficient.

[MarioDonick 752]

Time to migrate to X Plane 10.50 then. They are amazing and the wipers actually WORK!

 

Well, default X-Plane has windshield rain only in 2D cockpits -- not sure if you want to use that.

 

Other aircraft only have rain effects if the developers cared to implement it, and only some of them do. Also, the methods used lead to varying results. So all in all the situation is the same as in FSX.

[BuboBubo 35]

A few comment from Mathijs Kok regarding rain effects:

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/110849-aerosoft-a330-preview/&page=20#comment-756549

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/110849-aerosoft-a330-preview/&page=25#comment-761282

[G7USL 117]

Well, default X-Plane has windshield rain only in 2D cockpits -- not sure if you want to use that.

 

Other aircraft only have rain effects if the developers cared to implement it, and only some of them do. Also, the methods used lead to varying results. So all in all the situation is the same as in FSX.

No sir. You obviously haven't used XP for quite a while. My IXEG 737 shows real rain and sleet I also had to look twice when watching the wipers actually wiping the glass clean. For me, X Plane 10.50 is a head and shoulders above the others.

[cmpbellsjc 2,960]

Well, default X-Plane has windshield rain only in 2D cockpits -- not sure if you want to use that.

 

FSX has the rain drops on the windscreen when using the 2D cockpit as well, just not VC.

[Bjoern 1,153]

I was speaking of 'animated rain' of course, and your explication proved my point nicely. I personally disagree with the efficacy and desirability of 'static rain' even if the wipers create an illusion of wiping drops. :wink:

 

 

Hm. You could use the technique from the Lotus L-39 or Ant's T-28 (gauge polygon over glass) and simply cut out part of it when the wiper is running (what I've always been doing with a static bitmap). Moving rain and "wiping" wipers.

You wouldn't, of course, get this past the quality control of your employers as it would need quite a bit of refinement to look semi-convincing and well integrated into the art style of the rest of the cockpit, but I have a bit of leeway. So consider this more of a mental note for me.

 

 

 

I do not have any programming knowledge, but with all the animation tricks developers have learned over the years for FSX/P3D, there must be some way to get a good effect into aircraft.

 

Well...

 

 

Was it worth a try? Yes.

Would I do it again that way? Hell f'in no!

[HawkDsl 50]

Well if RA could do it, then everyone else can as well. V2 even has rain on the side windows. Even the sound changes when it becomes sleet or ice.

 

Expensive; better planes get better money. I didn't even flinch for RA and Milviz $40-70 asking price.

 

I have hundreds of planes in the hanger... Car TBM, and RA v2 dukes have the most hours, with the dukes winning out by a mile.  When the weather is bad, you can see it and hear it with the Dukes.. and you feel like your in the weather, rather then just watching it.

[TheFlightSimGuy 514]

No sir. You obviously haven't used XP for quite a while. My IXEG 737 shows real rain and sleet I also had to look twice when watching the wipers actually wiping the glass clean. For me, X Plane 10.50 is a head and shoulders above the others.

 

Man, 4 of your last 5 posts have been telling people to switch to X-Plane. In case you havent noticed, people here on Avsim are more than aware of X-Plane and some just choose not to use it. We know these "my sim is better than yours" discussions can go south, so just give it a rest. If your enjoy X-Plane, enjoy it, but don't trawl through the forums looking for reasons to tell others to. 

[MarioDonick 752]

No sir. You obviously haven't used XP for quite a while. My IXEG 737 shows real rain and sleet I also had to look twice when watching the wipers actually wiping the glass clean. For me, X Plane 10.50 is a head and shoulders above the others.

X-Plane is the only sim I use at the moment. I even co-develop aircraft for it (vFlyteAir), so believe me when I say that you do not get rain effects if the particular addon developers did not implement it. The IXEG 737 has rain effects because IXEG chose to create them, not because of X-Plane.

[Boeing or not going 578]

Man, 4 of your last 5 posts have been telling people to switch to X-Plane. In case you havent noticed, people here on Avsim are more than aware of X-Plane and some just choose not to use it. We know these "my sim is better than yours" discussions can go south, so just give it a rest. If your enjoy X-Plane, enjoy it, but don't trawl through the forums looking for reasons to tell others to. 

I clicked on his user name and see the same thing, he is going around to every topic and telling them how FSX and even P3D is "dust" and go to Xplane. Like a religious fanatic looking to convert.

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

Ahem, please don't wander away too much and get this thread locked. The audience is 3rd party aircraft developers and they need to get the message.

[Boeing or not going 578]

Ahem, please don't wander away too much and get this thread locked. The audience is 3rd party aircraft developers and they need to get the message.

This topic is over the most respected developer in my opinion has already weighed in. n4gix. If it cannot be done right, it cannot be done right.