737 route problem

[Jet Tech 31]

I really think you typing the route in manually is going to fix the issue.  I have heard of several other users reporting strange route behavior when importing flightplans depending on the source.   If it doesn't correct the issue open a support ticket with us so we can look into it further.

[Djembe 6]

I wil type the route manually, then i will save the route and compare with the PFPX .rte file. If match i will open the support ticket. If do not mach i will fly the route.

 

Robert Rodriguez

[Jet Tech 31]

Robert,

 

Please actually fly the route first and see if it works.  I suspect it will.  I doubt you will be able to discern the difference by simply looking at it but let us know.

[ALF1 15]

I will throw in my two cents since I also had that problem before though I never used PFPX.

 

I discovered this happens when there is a conflict between waypoints and or coordinates between the executed route and the nav data.

 

For example, using a previously stored route based on old nav data, if there is even a slight difference in the current nav data and the waypoints are the same, will yield this result and making changes to go direct to other waypoints during the flight is impossible.

 

Also, doing the fly by´s, or the fly over the first waypoints along the route is important I found out. Check and see what type of waypoint it is.

 

Using Navigraph navdata, i don´t like to store routes to be used later as co-route because the cycles are always changing and I always run into problems so I always manually input the current route. I also use what the airlines are using with FlightAware because since I am using ActiveSky weather those routes take you around the weather or take into account the winds aloft.

[Djembe 6]

Thanks for your two cents Alberto,

I use the last airac from navigraph for both ,PFPX and pmdg737.

Every flight i make a new flight plan, with new route (.rte). I do not use routes stored in PFPX (even the program check the routes stored every time you change the airac), and i do not have any route stored in the pmdg folder, because every time i finish the flight i delete the .rte file. This is why i pay a Navigraph subscription.

 

Then according to your information, the problem should be some disagreement between Navigraph PFPX data and PMDG data, even in the same airac.

Then why the CDU not show any problem with the route? In case you try to load a wrong flight plan i expect the CDU to tell me something like "error loadind fpl" or something like this. But everything is correct, no discontinuity in the route or something like this.

 

Anyway, i will flight again that route and set the route manually in a few days.

 

Robert Rodriguez

[pcubine 143]

PMDG has no data. Its data comes from Navigraph. How could you expect the NGX to give you an error message if it has no data?

[Djembe 6]

PMDG has no data. Its data comes from Navigraph. How could you expect the NGX to give you an error message if it has no data?

 

Maeby i have not explained well, my english is poor.

 

I want to say:

 

disagreement between Navigraph PFPX data and Navigraph PMDG data

 

Beter now? do you understand what i mean?

For exemple, what would happend if i create a flight plan in PFPX with a very old airac (waypoints that do not exist today), and i load the plan to the pmdg737 with the last airac?

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

For exemple, what would happend if i create a flight plan in PFPX with a very old airac (waypoints that do not exist today), and i load the plan to the pmdg737 with the last airac?

 

The FMS would not have the same route as PFPX.  Waypoints not found in the aircraft navdata would be ignored. If said waypoints were part of an airway I suspect the outcome would be unpredictable.

 

Why would you do this?

[Djembe 6]

I would not do it, i just want to know how pmdg handle the rte files.

In FSX you can load a FPL with the last airac, because de program do not compare the data with the FSX default data.

As you told, the FMS compare the data.

You use the rte file for program the route in the FMS, and the plane fly what is programed in the FMS.

If there is any problem in the rte file i expect to see it in the CDU, no directly in the behaviour of the plane (go out of route) because the plane do not fly as the rte file say, fly as the FMS say.

Why it can be any change in the behaviour of the airplane if the CDU show the same route with the PFPX file or manual route imput?

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

Why it can be any change in the behaviour of the airplane if the CDU show the same route with the PFPX file or manual route imput?

 

I wouldn't expect that; however, I have never found a definition for the rte file and know nothing of what it contains so I may not expect it but wouldn't be surprised. I asked if you stepped through the plan after loaded in the FMC putting the ND in PLN mode and using the LEGS page to step from fix to fix but you never responded so I assume you did not.  Paul from tech support asked if you re-flew the same plan manually entered but again no response. We're just trying to help you.

 

I've been importing files to NGX and 777 from PFPX for years..., it's just about the only way I set up flights.  I've seen mistakes in the PFPX route that I didn't catch until I reviewed it in the FMC..... a must for every flight.

[Djembe 6]

I asked if you stepped through the plan after loaded in the FMC putting the ND in PLN mode and using the LEGS page to step from fix to fix but you never responded so I assume you did not.

 

 

I always check the route loaded in the FMC with the RTE page and with the LEGS page before a flight. I go thru every page and check that all match with my printed flight plan, like a virtual/real pilot must do. Like i say in my firt post:

 

The route is created with PFPX, and the CDU show everithing correct.

 

 

I provide the .rte file in my first post of this topic for anyone understand the problem do not have nothing to do with the flight plan loaded on the FMS. But i think no one check that.

 

Here you have again the .rte file, so you can check by your self and not only belive in my words:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9zjz13z1k17kahn/FSIAOMDB.rte?dl=0

 

Please take two minutes to load this file on your FMS and told me if you see something wrong that can make the plane go out the route, because for me everithing is correct.

 

I will re-flew the same plan manually entered tomorrow (my day off). I will report with track file and video here on the forum, and i will open a suport ticket if the problem is not related to Navigraph data.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Robert Rodriguez

[vololiberista 205]

I would say that crossing the Equator is causing the problem. It's more than likely that your fpl software is asking the plane to turn back into the northern hemisphere. Make absolutely sure that all the waypoints have the correct latitude and longitude. Also when you input the fpl into the fmc make sure that it too has the correct lat/long coordinates. If the fmc has been correctly programmed and you still have this problem then it is a bug within the fmc.

[Djembe 6]

I am thinking that has nothing to do with the ecuador, and something to do with the navigraph data. I was wrong.

 

I save the route manualy entered, and i compared with the .rte file created with PFPX, for exemple GILID:

 

With PFPX:

 

GILID

5

UR401

1 N 4.0922 E 55.0956 0 

0

0

0

 

 

 

PMDGFMC5.0

 

 

GILID

GILID

-

2

UR401

1 N 4.09219 E 55.0956 0 

0

0

0

X

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0 0 0

1

0 -1000000 0 0

 

 

 

PFPX seems to round the numbers in some waypoints.

Another exemple with KURTA:

 

PFPX:

 

 

KURTA

5

N563

1 N 23.7014 E 55.8167 0 

0

0

0

 

PMDGFMC 5.0

 

 

KURTA

KURTA

-

2

N563

1 N 23.7014 E 55.8167 0 

0

0

0

X

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0 0 0

1

0 -1000000 0 0

 

 

I imagine that will be no problem after enter the route manualy, then were i need to go ask for support? PFPX or Navigraph?

[ALF1 15]

What did I tell you on the conflicts of waypoint coordinates?

 

I think we are all waiting to hear what happens when you input the route manually.

[Djembe 6]

Ok!

Here the results of the test:

 

First i test with the PFPX rte file. Again the plane go out of the route just after pass AXINA, and start to go from left to right, but that time do not turn 180º continue heading north

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vldw12i6hqtcfme/1.png?dl=0

 

 

Now the test with flight plan manually entered:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/f4yn80plg4fimio/2.png?dl=0

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tolb3eeuk390mfm/3.png?dl=0

 

The plane start to turn left to right after UTRON.

Then the plane comeback on route by themself, then it go out of route definetivly as you can see in the screenshot.

 

Strange bug, i flew hundrets of hours in the pmdg737 arround the globe in many routes, and this route is the only that causes problems every time y fly it.

 

Time to open a suport ticket?

 

Robert Rodriguez