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michal

Reality vs FS9

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Guest SuperFortress

>>>>I completely agree with that. Fs9 is definitely not a>>replacement for actual flight training but when it's>combined>>properly as part of the whole learning process, it becomes>an>>extremely valuable tool I think.>>One of these days, glass cockpits will become the norm, in>newer GA airplanes, as it's already getting to that point with>new airplanes coming to flight schools. IMO, it will be>desktop flight simulators, that will provide the perfect>learning tool to operate these new systems. And this means>starting with the PPL instruction.>>L.AdamsonA great example of this is the Cirrus SR20. Using FS9 is an excellent way to get a nice jumpstart on all those new systems and avionics.

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Guest av84fun

I agree with L. Adamson. As for focussing too much on the guages in FS...there are guages in real airplanes too. Just cover up everything other than airspeed and the TC with post-it-notes cut out round a look out the window just as ITRW.There are LOTS of things to practice in FS. Go arounds for example. Many students...and licensed pilots for that matter...have bought the farm by forgetting to push off the carb heat and/or retract flaps on a go around.Another great thing to practice is forced landings. Can you make the field you THINK you can make? Are you set up properly into the wind? Have you performed the restart check list...FROM MEMORY...then the forced landing checklist...FROM MEMORY? Ditto for engine out attempts to return to the runway. HOW MUCH ALTITUDE DO YOU NEED TO EVEN CONSIDER THAT in the machine you are flying...considering that you need WAY MORE than a 180 degree turn to get back to the same runway you left from. Have you determined IN ADVANCE whether the safest forced landing area lies to the left or right of the runway...or does a 90 degree turn, or so, get you on an intersecting runway.Do you have random failures set up in FS...especially engine failures?I'll wager there isn't 1 Private Pilot in 100 who can recite the engine restart and forced landing checklists from memory or has any clue which direction to turn in the event of an engine failure on take off.Regards,Jim

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>real C172 seems a lot easier to control than the Flight1 C172.I wonder if the same is true if we consider other planes than the C172?

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Guest Adverse Yawn

147 seconds is the estimated average before contol is finally lost.

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Hi "Adverse Yawn",I'm interested- do you have the Elite sim? I've been interested in something that I could use on my desktop for instrument currency (not legal currency, of course, more like proficiency). I'd be interested in your comments on it if you do have it.To the original poster- there is a lot to be said for FS and it's help in getting into real flying. There are pros and cons. Like someone said here- nothing can prepare you for the big wide world out there, being able to negotiate other traffic and real issues that are often unexpected.Bruce.brucek@qwest.net

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Guest paradoxbox

I'd have to say yes. Most, if not all of the planes I've flown in flight simulators (not only MSFS, but Fly!II, X-Plane, etc..) are easier to fly in real life than in the simulator. It's just a matter of things like differences in control hardware, and inability to replicate exact performance.I would disagree that you should not use the flight sim during training. I think it is a great benefit to have during training. But you need to be aware of the habits you should avoid. Looking at the instruments too much is one of them. In the sim, the instruments are there for you to look at, if you want to abuse the privilige, no one is going to stop you. So stop yourself. This will carry over to your real world training. Get used to flying VFR style in the sim and you'll be used to flying VFR style in real world as well. Keep your head up. Good luck with your training.

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Guest

how can you NOT continue to look at your instruments in the game? I fly strickly from the VC... but without a sense of your body feeling altitude and speed changes, there is nothing else to tell you you are flying straight and level and at a certain speed

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>>real C172 seems a lot easier to control than the Flight1>C172.>>I wonder if the same is true if we consider other planes than>the C172?I disagree with the general notion that real aircraft are somehow easier to fly than the simulated ones in FS.I recall here a post by the moderator of this very forum - Ken Salter - who started to take flying lesson and found real landing much more difficult than in the sim.I personally have hundreds of hours in a real C172 and don't find Flight1's 172 more difficult than the real thing. I would really have to think long hard to make a definite statement which one is more difficult. If flying real airplanes was easier than you would expect to see folks well experienced in the MSFS to just zip through the pilot's training in no time at all - this is not true based on real evidence.My 16 year old son managed to learn how to land Flight1's 172 in one hour. I don't think he would be be able to accomplish this with such ease in the real thing.Michael J.WinXP-Home SP2,AMD64 3500+,Abit AV8,Radeon X800Pro,36GB Raptor,1GB PC3200,Audigy 2http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/747400.jpghttp://www.hifisim.com/images/asv_beta_member.jpg

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Guest keattchr

>I'm ecstatic to say that I have finally resumed my dream and>pursuit of obtaining a PPL. Well done!I am in the same position as yourself, but I have completed around 17 hours and gone solo.>Going for my 3rd lesson next>weekend. While training in a C172 I kept making mental>comparison's to the Flight1 C172 which I'm currently using.>Besides some of the obvious differences such as G-forces,>stick pressure, and peripheral vision, I've noticed that a>real C172 seems a lot easier to control than the Flight1 C172.Pitch can be more stable in real world, but I wonder if you will still say the same once you get to stalls, slow flight and advanced turns }( - you will need #### strong left arm muscles!>I thought it would actually be vice versa. I'm sure this has>probably been discussed before but I was wondering what other>people , who have gone from FS9 to real life training, thought>about the transition from sim to reality and whether or not>they felt that real life flying was easier than simming. Thank>you.I wondered exactly the same thing before I started flying the real 172. I used to think landing a real 172 shouldn't be that difficult after mastering it in the sim for 10 years - I couldn't have been further from the truth!After 17 hours, countless circuits and landings and going solo, I believe the average sim pilot would probably kill themselves, or at least bend the aircraft pretty quickly without an instructor with them. Yes, Active Sky is superb, but it will not prepare you for landing a real 172 in a real dynamic atmosphere. I recently did 12 circuits at Duxford in the UK with the wind gusting 20 knots across the runway. I was working the rudder pedals, throttle and control column like a man possesed! A lot of fun, but I only managed two landings out of the 12 approaches. In the sim I could land off every approach after setting the weather to similar conditions.It may sound I discount FS as a usefull training aid but I certainly do not. I have UK airport scenery, the very good VFR terrain and VFR scenery for the UK. I can practice the circuits (Elstree has one southerly and three northerly circuits), seeing the same scenery in the sim as in the real world. It is great for practicing approaches and is simply superb for practicing cross county VFR navigation. No doubt the IFR pilots would also concur it is great for practice.FS2004 is great for practice, but you will not step into a real 172 and sail through the PPL. You will have a headstart because you will know what your supposed to do and know a lot of the procedures, but take my word for it - once you get to the circuit/landing part of the course, you WILL be shocked at how much you need to learn!Ray Keattch

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>FS2004 is great for practice, but you will not step into a>real 172 and sail through the PPL. You will have a headstart>because you will know what your supposed to do and know a lot>of the procedures, but take my word for it - once you get to>the circuit/landing part of the course, you WILL be shocked at>how much you need to learn!>Yes, to nail landings, a student will do it a hundred times or so, and flight simulator will not prepare someome for that, since it's kind of a memorized look of the surroundings.But on the other hand, once VC's became popular for flight simming, I now actually enjoy landing simulated airplanes and even pattern work. But, IMO, it's because I already know the feel & look of landing the real plane, and it translates to the sim. I don't see how it could work the other way around.L.Adamson

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>>real C172 seems a lot easier to control than the Flight1>C172.>>I wonder if the same is true if we consider other planes than>the C172?I doubt I'd be too comfortable in a real Spitfire, or even a Lear, considering I usually land them with success in flight simulator. Doesn't mean I wouldn't get them down in one piece, but I doubt I'd say it was easier than flight sim afterwards! :D L.Adamson

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>But, IMO, it's because I already know the>feel & look of landing the real plane, and it translates to>the sim. I don't see how it could work the other way around.IMHO that's the key. It is one thing to be a real pilot and then use this sim and make comments how easy/difficult sim flying is and totally different to be a sim pilot and go to the real world flying. Both experiences are totally different and should never be confused.Michael J.

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Guest Adverse Yawn

Hi Bruce,Yes, I bought ELITE to compliment my UK instrument rating (IMC) training. After a few hours in instrument training, once I fully understood what I have to achieve, it was clear to me that neither FS (nor X-plane) could offer what I needed. It was slow, jerky, instruments such as the ADF, SlipBall, VSI, and TC are totally unrealistic in addition it simply takes too long to set up a scenario and the playback isn't as good either. Not to mention failures.Ergonimically, ELITE is first rate. The aircraft have realistic flight models within the flight envelope that ELITE was designed for: t/o, climb, turn, descend, approach and apparently asymetric thrust too - all book numbers flying. All the controls are accessible by the mouse without needing to bring up extra windows meaning you can practice drills with much more cohesion. The trimming is very well done. Tuning radios is no more fiddley that for real (with a little practice), not like the clickclickclickclickclickbuggerclickclick of FS. The ADF models dip very well indeed and saved me at least

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Thanks for the very interesting reply.I have IP Trainer, a software package made for ASA for IR training, but always found the trim to be just as buggy as FS in turns, etc. Although there is an automatic trim available in it, but all it does is stabilize the attitude trim for level flight- which goes out the door once I enter a turn (unlike the real thing).It sounds like you have your instrument rating (in the UK?). Do you use the Elite package much to practice on? I'm not sure if you're still actively flying or not. I'm finding, as I prepare for my 6 monthly currency ride (6 approaches, holds, VOR tracking)with my CFII that the limited time I have in flying approaches, holds, etc. by reference solely to instruments is nowhere near enough to keep proficient, although I'm legally current to file and fly an instrument flight plan. Thanks again for your very detailed reply, much appreciated.Bruce.

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