New PC Specs - your comments welcome

[Blaze 102]

 

 

Now you have me thinking - many thanks for your suggestion. Food for thought!!!!!!

 

Rich,

I just did basically this.

We have similar base systems

I had a  i7 4770K 16MB of Mushkin Ram MSI Z87 MPower Max MB and a GTX 780OC'd  My case is a Cooler Master HAF932 with a Corsair H100 about the only difference is I was able to OC to 4.2ghz easily can go higher but 4.2 is rock steady and could not tell much of a difference between it and 4.5ghz so for longevity I run it where I have it.

 

Thought about a new Skylake build myself but before  went that route I bought a 1080 GTX EVGA FTW DT card. It was actually a bit of an impulse buy and I thought I would suffer a bit of buyers remorse shelling out over $600 on a graphics card but, I've been pleasantly surprised.

 

I run P3dv3.4 with basically all the goodies Orbx Global  LC Vector AS16 +ASCA GSX Payware Airports and Aircraft  from about all the big names.  Most the time I would struggle around the airports running anywhere into the teens to mid 20's fps depending a lot on the weather.  The 1080gtx has allowed me to bump several sliders to the right a notch in P3d and AS16 (keeping expectations in check). I check my FSUIPC Log to measure VAS usage and FPS over time and what I have found is my average FPS has went up and my sim is noticeably smoother even with the increase in settings.  Now  after the 1080GTX I rarely see fps drop under 20 (18 was the lowest after many flights and varying conditions) and my average is in the mid 40's. That's basically night and day and would never have thought it possible if I was not experiencing it myself. 

 

I'm not FPS obsessed and I did not do any repeatable benchmarks so my findings are anything but scientific but that said, let there be no doubt that card alone has extended the life-cycle of my current system at least another 12-18 months so I feel it was money well spent. 

[martin-w 3,234]

Well whatever, custom watercooling is awesome. once you have bought all the bits, they will only need slight tweaks for future builds. so in the end, its not bad value at all. Those more technically minded, like to have full control of their cooling solution.

 

 

We aren't debating  custom loops! We're debating All In One closed loop coolers!

 

But yes, a custom loop is indeed "awesome" as you put it. But that depends how you define awesome. In terms of frame rate in games the gains from the additional overclock aren't that huge, for the reasons previously mentioned.

 

The risks associated with custom loops are greater than the risks posed by a AIO coolers. Simply because there are usually far more points of failure, multiple hoses, barbs blocks etc. And then of course there's regular maintenance required, and if a component cooled by the loop should need replacing, a graphics  card for example, then the entire system needs to be drained.

 

However, those that build a custom loop,  like me some years ago, accept the additional maintenance and that leaks happen from time to time. And indeed, with a custom loop any damage to other components isn't covered by any warranty.  At least that's one advantage of an AIO.

 

Air coolers don't leak! Full stop! 

[james_2k 36]

No they don't leak, but they are not optimal, if as i said, you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking for either a silent or very effective cooling setup. Recently replaced my water cooled card with an air cooled one, can change to a water block at some point but its quiet enough, took 20 mins to drain, reroute and refill the loop.

[martin-w 3,234]

No they don't leak, but they are not optimal, if as i said, you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking for either a silent or very effective cooling setup.

 

 

 

Correct, air coolers aren't "optimal" in terms of CPU temp, indeed, a custom loop does generate the lowest CPU temp.

 

However, and I think you must have missed this in my previous posts...

 

The lower temperature courtesy of a custom loop, in practical terms, isn't required. As I pointed out previously, in a well balanced system, gains from an overclock are linear. Thus, if a custom loop, as a result of greater thermal headroom, allows us to overclock a few hundred megahertz more, that's minimal in terms of percentage. For example, an extra 200 MHz overclock, lets say 4.6 to 4.8 GHz, is slightly less than 5%. So at 30 frames per second, that's a minuscule 1.5 frames per second!

 

Put another way, that's a highly expensive, high maintenance cooling system that can on occasion leak and damage other hardware.... that ultimately results in a minuscule, additional 1.5 frames per second. Are we desperate for 1.5 frames per second? No, of course not!

 

Now if we look at, for example, my NH-D15S, that overclocks my 6700K to 4.6 GHz [it will handle a higher overclock] in accordance with the above scenario, I lose only 1.5 frames per second, but have a cooler that has no pump to fail, can't leak, is super quiet and cools as much as I require. It's also a lot cheaper.

 

 

The bottom line is that our cooling solutions should be as quiet as we require, reasonable cost, and importantly.... cool to the degree we require! Excessive cooling beyond what we require, by definition, isn't required!

 

 

 

 

you are technically minded, you don't mind a few hours of leak checking

 

 

 

A mute point, if we don't require a full blown custom loop, because the minuscule increase in frame rate would be barely noticed.

 

But yes, if an individual decided to build a custom loop, as I did some years back, then they would accept the possibility of leaks, accept the requirement for maintenance. But I built that custom loop, because it looked fantastic and for the challenge and sense of achievement... I didn't build it because I expected it to ultimately result in a huge increase in frame rate.

 

Custom loops look fantastic, stunning, and I have no issue with anyone building a custom loop, go for it... but facts are facts, and in terms of higher frame rate in our applications, which of course is our ultimate objective, the gain is minimal.

[james_2k 36]

A lot of people want that extra %, most of the fun for me (I can only speak for myself) is getting the best performance i can from my pc. Watercooling gets you there

[martin-w 3,234]

A lot of people want that extra %, most of the fun for me (I can only speak for myself) is getting the best performance i can from my pc. Watercooling gets you there

 

 

They do, for FUN... as I said, I have no issue with that. Precisely why I built a custom loop.... as I said.

[Jetset408 108]

Thanks again to everyone for all of your valuable insights. Much appreciated!

[Jetset408 108]

An update:

 

Thanks to everyone for their comments. I went ahead and ordered, built and have running my new system:

 

6700K (already OC'd to 4.6Ghz - i went straight in at a 1.28v target and it is stable as a rock!!! I will try lowering it soon)

16Gb 2666Mhz RAM

Zotac nvidia 1070 GTX GPU - Zotac was £60 cheaper than the EVGA equivalent!

NZXT H440 case - looks awesome!

Corsair H115i AIO water cooler

Asrock Z170 OC Formula

 

It went together very well, and worked first time! Only issue was the CPU hitting 90'C at stock fq under a load test using AIDA64. I diagnosed the reason being AIDA interfering with the Corsair Link software which stopped the AIO water cooler fans spooling up!!!!

 

It is now running at 4.6Ghz with temps around mid 60'Cs to mid 70'Cs, with very intermittent spikes to 80'C-82'C. Im on about 1.28v and may seek to lower it soon.

 

Im chuffed with the system! Had a very quick check of P3D and it was smoooooooooooooth. Excited to test it out properly soon!

[martin-w 3,234]

Great news Rich!  :smile:

 

It is now running at 4.6Ghz with temps around mid 60'Cs to mid 70'Cs, with very intermittent spikes to 80'C-82'C. Im on about 1.28v and may seek to lower it soon.

 

 

 

Is that adaptive voltage or manual voltage? And running what, a stress test, the sim? 

 

That's a low voltage if manual. Will be higher under load of course if adaptive. Best to check the voltage while running a stress test, temp too. If you haven't of course.

 

Roughly what ambient temp?

 

 

 

I'm at 4.6 GHz too, and see 75 degrees max while running RealBench. Voltage is 1.34 stable. But of course you should always add a little extra as a safety margin so I run at 1.36.

 

Considering I'm using a higher voltage, and the ambient was high during my tests, it seems I'm doing well compared to your H110.

[westman 257]

I feel more comfortable with up to 1.47v if the CPU 68-72C than 1.3v +75C heat kill more than voltage.

Keep in mind that the Skylake start to throttling at +82-83C

Safe temp 70-73C over that the risk for degradinng is much bigger.

[martin-w 3,234]

Keep in mind that the Skylake start to throttling at +82-83C

 

 

 

Really! are you sure about that Hasse? That's very low for a CPU to throttle.

 

I was under the impression that Skylake didn't throttle until 100 degrees. 

[westman 257]

Really! are you sure about that Hasse? That's very low for a CPU to throttle.

 

I was under the impression that Skylake didn't throttle until 100 degrees.

 

Throttle was wrong word , most of them get unstable with high OC at 80-85C and the risk of a dead CPU.

A lot of dead good CPUs during Intel XTU with AIO and custom loops at ambient 20-22C with +1.45v 80-85C core temp.

i dont recomend to run stresstests at over 75C, optimal max 70C

 

Appologies Martin.....

[Jetset408 108]

 

 

Is that adaptive voltage or manual voltage? And running what, a stress test, the sim?

That's a low voltage if manual. Will be higher under load of course if adaptive. Best to check the voltage while running a stress test, temp too. If you haven't of course.

Roughly what ambient temp?

 

I have double checked now back at my PC - I have set:

- 46x all-core multiplier

- 100MHz BCLK

- VCore fixed at 1.25v (!!!!!)

- 2666 MHz XMP profile

 

LLC is set at Level 1 - I think this means the actual voltage varies.

 

My results running AIDA64 stress test for 1 hour are:

- max temps 78/80/77/76

- average temps are high 60s low 70s (the max temps are very sporadically reached, and only momentarily)

- "core voltage" is flipping between 1.248v/1.264v under the AIDA64 load, and 1.232v at idle (where CPU fq drops to 800MHz)

- using P3D, CPU temps are 60s, low 70s

- ambient temp will be low 20s (MB sensors read 28'C)

 

I went straight in at a voltage of 1.3v. tested as stable, and made one adjustment to 1.25v. Absolutely no stability issues under a 1 hour AIDA64 test. But this voltage seems too low! I'm worried I'm missing something, but above is what I set in the BIOS and monitor using CPUID. Any thoughts?

[james_2k 36]

i dont think you are using the stress test properly if you get similar temps in p3d as in aida.

 

what options do you have selected on the stress test? just have  stress fpu selected and tell us what it does.

 

LLC is to combat voltage droop, basically gives it a little boost under load, the amount of which varies based on the level of llc selected.

 

Oh and by the way 1 hour isn't any sort of guarantee of stability, i found i had stress test stability but fsx would crash after 20 mins or so

[Jetset408 108]

I'm stressing FPU, CPU, Cache and System Memory. I know I need to do longer than 1 hour. These are initial tests. Temps on AIDA are prob about 10*C above P3D. My explanation may have been a little off initially on that one!