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Kai Tak in fs9?

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Guest Paragon

How come no one has made a high detail version of Kai Tak, something like FlyTampa airports. I realize that there are some, but I find them inferior to say the least. I know it's closed and all, but it is probably the most famous approach, plus the surroundings are amazing. I know there would be a lot of people who would want to try and see if they could master the IGS13 approach.

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Guest Paragon

I've seen it, and honestly I think it's just not good enough. It's terrible on the framerates plus it doesn't blend in very well. The surrounding hills are "blocky" and so on.It does however depict the city and airport quite well, if only they would update it a bit more.

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Yes Mikkel, I'm one of those who would love to have it but if you search the previous threads, the only ones existing are so horrible on the frames that it renders them unusable. I'd make one myself if I had the skills..

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Guest Paragon

Yea I'm with you...if only I knew how to make a scenery. Oh well...hopefully someone will realize the, in my opinion, huge potential sales a Kai Tak scenery would have.

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Guest B52Drivr

Hello All, The fella who was putting it all together was SoCalMarcus, I think, but I haven't heard anything from him in ages . . . I sure got excited abotu 6 months ago when I saw the 9 Dragons video . . . sure would be nice if the project was close to finish.Best,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

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Guest Paragon

Having just watched this video i have to say...for the love of all that is holy, please finish this, it looks amazing. I would be willing to help and pay big money for this scenery. I tried to visit the website, but got nothing...has anyone been able to contact them?

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Well maybe he's the chap to ask ... his email is at the end of the video. Incidentally, I could have done without the real-world crash shot in the middle of it; that clip is nothing to do with Kai Tak, so that is a little annoying. Maybe that's what put people off joining his team.There are rumours that Thomas Kwong is working on a new freeware version. I myself know of another chap who has been working on a project, which I have been beta testing for him. I doubt, however, that any commercial enterprise will take it on, given that the Flightsoft one already exists and Samsoft also made a version previously. The market is just not big enough. Yet ...The other point is that not many people other than Bill Lyons and Tom Gibson get too wound up about airports that are no longer open in the real world. It seems that the majority of new simmers today fly Airbus and Boeing and want to be ahead of, not behind, the times.All that is currently available for Kai Tak and its surroundings is listed on my site ... click the banner. See also my FS2002 and FS2000 pages ... there's some useful stuff there.MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

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Guest Paragon

Mark, I have checked your site, from before also, and I find it very useful and interesting. I remember finding some dynamic AI that would simulate the actual IGS13 approach! I would sit at the runway threshold and stare at the planes coming in...it's just so fascinating.I agree, I was a little surprised to see the crash aswell, and having seen it before and knowing where it took plave I was even more surprised. It was in poor taste imo.I wish, and pray that Thomas would do a Kai Tak, that guy is so talented it's scary. :)I guess there is nothing else to do than wait and see...I will send an email and ask if they need help, although I'm not very optimistic as their website is down.This guy you are beta testing for, does he plan on doing the airport only, or is he recreating the surrounding area aswell, meaning the city and harbor area?

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This topic seems to come up every few months and one thing is for sure, When Kai Tak is done truly properly the entire FS community will go Grade 1 Bonkers.

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Guest Paragon

Exactly...and this is what has me puzzled. Why wouldn't any add-on scenery maker want to cash in on this wating to happen frenzy...perhaps it's a question of not having the correct or enough data avaiable?

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Only thing I can think of is because it's now a "dead airport", photos are becoming thin on the ground, memories are fading away and yes accurate data is harder to obtain now.

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Guest yarvelling

It may be a 'dead airport', but, it is without doubt one of the most fascinating and beautiful , in wonderful surroundings. I too am very surprised that no-one has yet come up with a good FS9 version. I've tried the FlightSoft version, and it's OK, but as has been said, is terrible on frame rates, and the surrounding scenery is dreadfull....the water textures are a joke! Quite why they decided on that I'll never know, especially as they have so amny boats and even the Star Ferry in the harbour! I've also found that the earlier Thomas Kwong versions don't run so well in FS9, which is a shame because they look pretty good, but also give FPS problems.I sincerely hope that he does finish a properly optimised FS9 version, or that someone else takes on the task...mayhap one of those that Mark refers to will be good..I await the arrival with baited breath!Distant memories of being there, and photos fuel my interest still....and one day I shall return to Hong Kong, but until then, I'll be happy to fly into and out of a decent flight sim rendition of that classic airport :)

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Guest Paragon

That looks sweet, got any more pictures...let me know if you need any help. I would give an arm and a leg to fly the 747 into this airport. Perhaps we could scare up some volunteers to help out.

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>>>I remember finding some dynamic AI that would simulate the actual >>>IGS13 approach! I would sit at the runway threshold and stare at >>>the planes coming in...it's just so fascinating.That was for FS2000, Mikkel, yes ... the only AI that has ever been designed to date that follows the correct IGS approach to R13 with the 47' turn on short final. FS9 AI can't do that ... yet.The file is at www.swiremariners.com/flysma.html for anyone who wants to try it.MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

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Guest Darren Howie

Loved that vid especially the flashes from realoty to the sim.Oh to dream!!DArren

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Guest yarvelling

Looks really good so far Clutch Cargo :) Excellent! Thank you.....very much :)

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>>>the only AI that has ever been designed to date that follows the correct IGS approach to R13 with the 47' turn on short final. FS9 AI can't do that ... yet.This is not true. There are many complex approaches in the default FS9 database that AI traffic/planes will be vectored to when on a IFR FP. Consider the LDA LOC/DME 26L approach at PHNL. When weather is less then 3 mile visibilty AI Planes track inbound on a 315 degree heading (base leg) then turn to a 270 degree True Heading (259 degree Mag Heading) within 1 mile from the runway threshold. Another unique FS9 default approach for AI Traffic is PADU in Alaska. That airport has one hard surface runway 12/30 but the AI Planes fly a very complex approach to a non exsistant "GPS" runway="36" suffix="E" baseleg to land. The FS9 default database reads as follows.I have been developing both ILS and curved approaches for different airports since June of 2004. Unlike FS9 my approaches are written for both VMC and IMC airport conditions.Example, You can download KLAS, PHNL, LOWI which all use a different approach scheme for AI Planes that I have here on AVSIM.KLAS have curved offset (base leg real world) approaches to both runways 19R and 7RLOWI have the approaches for AI Aircraft coming down the valley and then a turn to short final. I wrote these approaches for high terrain avoidance. I included all the approach charts so the user aircraft can select the AI Traffic Approach or Published Approaches.PHNL (also for terrain avoidance) has the most offset (curved) approaches of all the airports that I have done. All 4 runways (26L, 26R, 22L, 22R) fly over CKH (Koko Head VOR) on a heading of 300 degrees and then a short left turn to final for each of the runways. Runway 26L, AI Traffic fly the default LDA approach both VMC and IMCRunway 26R, AI Traffic fly down the beach on an extened base leg and then a short left turn to final.Runway 22L and 22R, AI Traffic fly extended parallel base legs between downtown and the mountain ridge and then make a shallow left turn of 60 degrees to final within 1 mile from the runway thresholds.I have completed the Kai Tak IGS 13 approach for the AI Traffic but have not uploaded yet. Here is the problem.MSN made sure all their default planes can double as AI Traffic type planes also. That means even the B777 and B747 FS9 defaults are tweaked with proper FD's so they have no problem executing a LDA or IGS type offset approach when I write it in the database. It's all the other AI Planes designed by developers that can't turn on short final at low altitudes and align properly to the runway. It appears that 3rd party AI planes are only tweak for straight in type approaches because a lot of user's think that is all that FS9 can do. As stated above there needs to be a frame rate friendly VHHX designed. FPS also effect AI traffic behavior and any type FS9 curved approach to landing must be fluid.My next version (upload) for Atlanta (KATL) will actually have the four STAR arrivals that both AI Planes and User Aircraft will be vectored to. These include MACEY2, ROME2, SINCA3 and LAGRANGE1. This is still being tested but all AI Traffic is immediately vectored to MACEY2 and SINCA3 STAR arrivals when landing west once they enter the visual AI Zone (108NM).Same applies when landing East. ATC vectors AI Traffic using a heading that places all AI Planes onto the ROME2 and LAGRANGE1 Arrival then a turn to final at 9 miles from the runways. No more extended downwinds to any runway at KATL.Do a search at AVSIM using Matthew Ministry (Authors Name) for additional curved approaches that he has done. I believe he already did one for Ronald Reagan rwy 19 so AI Traffic fly down the Potomac River with a right turn to short final.Again be reminded that your 3rd party AI Plane may miss a curved approach runway and that is a designer FD issue not a FS9 issue.

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Guest Paragon

>That was for FS2000, Mikkel, yes ... the only AI that has ever>been designed to date that follows the correct IGS approach to>R13 with the 47' turn on short final. FS9 AI can't do that>... yet.>>The file is at www.swiremariners.com/flysma.html for anyone>who wants to try it.>>Mark>>Mark "Dark Moment" Beaumont>VP Fleet, DC-3 Airways>Team Member, MAAM-SIMIs was for fs2000, true, but it works fine in fs9 as well. It looks spectacular I think. :D

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Yes, it works fine, Mikkel. I use it in FS9 also, together with static aircraft for Kai Tak.Jim, thanks for posting, that's a real education and excellent news that you are working on one for Kai Tak. I have your LOWI work, yes, I knew about the offset of course but did not take on board that aircraft could curve on final approach. And it's good to hear MS vindicated for once, rather than trashed! I'd be quite happy to see ANY aircraft that could make the correct IGS approach and curve into R13 ... forget the third party applications, just set it up for the default 737 and 747, perhaps. There are plenty of appropriate paints for the default aircraft and if you do that, maybe we'll make a few more!MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

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Guest Knikolaes

>Well maybe he's the chap to ask ... his email is at the end>of the video. Incidentally, I could have done without the>real-world crash shot in the middle of it; that clip is>nothing to do with Kai Tak, so that is a little annoying. >Maybe that's what put people off joining his team.>>>Mark>I dunno . . . I wasn't put off by the crash at all. To me that is actually one of the things Kai Tak was famous for -- crashes. And before you go aff and call me morbid or start flaming me, lemme explain . . . I caught the purpose of that shot -- showing the challenge of the landing and what can happen if you do not do the landing with utmost skill and attention. To me the Kai Tak crashes are a reminder to keep myself in gear and pay attention to what the heck I am doing.But then again i could be biased. I am constantly watching crash videos here at home -- learing from mistakes . . . so I do not end up making myself one of those balls of fire.Awesome looking project. I hope they finish it. I have the Hong Kong 2004 mentioned in the first reply and had it installed for a mere 15 minutes before UNinstalling it. Not only did it not blend well, but there was apparently a conflict with my Flight Environment that made water textures "flash" between default and HK2k4's . . . making it sem like a flatten switch issue or effect issue. VERY distracting for this addon. If they would have just done the land and not the water, it still would have sucked -- but at last it would have been tolerable.Ont hat note, if anyone has any idea if the water is in it's own BGL's, and if so which ones -- I might give HK2k4 another try . . . Any ideas?

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