GTN 650-750 update

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

A couple of points here before this thread goes over the edge and gets locked. The real world GTN units have this database limitation. Hence the trainer is going to have this "feature" also.

 

And asking for detailed instructions as to how to mod Garmin's trainer is not going to sit well with Flight1. Use Google or PM someone who has done the editing.

[captain420 3,099]

Thanks Bob for the info! Appreciate it!

[fppilot 4,360]

Can the GTN Trainer Lite folders holding saved GTN flight plan catalogs be used with the new trainer.  In 1.14 and earlier they are stored in the folders seen below.  I believe the GTN1nonvol are plans saved using the trainer standalone, and that 2 and 3 are created abd used by F1 GTN gauges 1 and 2 to save the flight plan catalogs.

 

 

[hesynergy 67]

Dear Garmin NavData subscriber,

 

We regret to inform you the Worldwide NavData service you subscribe to will need to be modified to account for a sizing limitation. Effective Cycle 1602, airports with runways of 4000ft or less will be removed from the database. Heliports will also be removed.

While it's not an acceptable excuse, the oversizing of the Worldwide database caught both Garmin and Jeppesen by surprise. The volume of procedures submitted by global source providers has been growing at a rapid pace. Several options were evaluated as to what to do to quickly mitigate the sizing issue.

 

None were perfect, but the decision was made to limit included airports to the 4,000ft runway length and above. For all systems except the Garmin 400W/500W series, the revised Worldwide databases will be implemented in cycle 1602 effective Feb. 4, 2016.

 

Unfortunately, for the Garmin 400W/500W series, the oversize happened sooner and too quickly to allow for an advance notice and had to be executed in cycle 1601. Attached is the official service advisory published by Garmin, which includes the list of affected avionics.

At Jeppesen we are working to provide an option to Worldwide database subscribers to have access to multiple regionalized versions of the database, which will include access to all airports, including those with runways less than 4000ft and heliports. We are working quickly to get this option in place.

 

Note that no airport content restrictions exist in any of the smaller, regionalized databases such as Americas, International, USA, etc. Those databases will remain unchanged.

 

We are committed to working with each of you impacted to find an acceptable solution. Again, on behalf of Jeppesen and Garmin, we apologize for the impact. The only way to continue with any type of Worldwide service is to restrict the size of airports included in that service. We will be conducting a post analysis to identify how to prevent this situation from happening in the future as well as improved communication.

 

Sincerely,

Jeppesen

 

We need another thread started...if this one gets closed.

 

We should not have to pay for Jeppeson/Garmin incompetences, nor the perpetuation of same through F1.

 

Chas

[DavidP 1,410]

We should not have to pay for Jeppeson/Garmin incompetences, nor the perpetuation of same through F1.

 

You don't have to - no one is forcing you to buy the product.

As I have said time and time again - this is realism - this is the real world.

 

 

So it's either one or the other, either worldwide package that will limit airports to runways with 4000ft or more, or have regional databases which include everything

That's pretty well it. You have to think, in the real world, how many aircraft owners would subscribe to a world-wide package? To those that do (and I would be suggesting some pretty well off owners or charter companies) would see this as the cost of doing business.

 

To the rest of us who own aircraft, we would be mostly using regional packages (in my case "Pacific", I think it's called).

 

Simmers are delving into the real world here. Garmin/Jepp don't do their business to suit simmers, there are bigger, much bigger, fish to fry out there.

 

In the real world, I would like Garmin to upgrade their GTN software for BARO/VNAV as we have no WAAS in Australia - but that is not a priority for Garmin as they tend to focus more on the USA, and there is not much need for that when LPV's are available. So I have to wait and hope.

[hesynergy 67]

You don't have to - no one is forcing you to buy the product.

 

I have owned the FT1 GTN750 since it came out... and I expect FT1 to provide solutions to a diminished product.

 

As I have said time and time again - this is realism - this is the real world.

 

...and owners of real world GTN 750s at $14,000 each, should be livid at the incompetence of either or both Jefferson and Garmin for not managing their rather simple database...this isn't rocket science...its rather basic RDBM ..

 

This screw-up was no surprise to ANYONE who has heard of ICAO ...a simple Excel trendline shows when the limits of their outdated Database would be hit...Hint:At least last January, 2016 if not earlier.

 

 

 

That's pretty well it. You have to think, in the real world, how many aircraft owners would subscribe to a world-wide package? To those that do (and I would be suggesting some pretty well off owners or charter companies) would see this as the cost of doing business.

 

To the rest of us who own aircraft, we would be mostly using regional packages (in my case "Pacific", I think it's called).

 

Simmers are delving into the real world here. Garmin/Jepp don't do their business to suit simmers, there are bigger, much bigger, fish to fry out there.

But F1 has the due diligence of;

1. Giving us the real, TIMELY poop re the Pros and Cons of upgrading up front when the Upgrade was announced. And;

2. Giving us "purchasers" of the F1 GTNX50, the apparent and easy choice of what databases it makes available

 

In the real world, I would like Garmin to upgrade their GTN software for BARO/VNAV as we have no WAAS in Australia - but that is not a priority for Garmin as they tend to focus more on the USA, and there is not much need for that when LPV's are available. So I have to wait and hope.

 

Ultimately, we that are not RW flyers can't expect ANYTHING from JEP/Garmin; WE... must depend on F1's transparent representation of the GTN x50, we purchased, and our polite, but firm demand for timely, pre-release notification, of updates and the effects we should expect therefrom.

 

Chas

[kevinfirth 1,393]

notification, of ...the effects we should expect therefrom.

I think this is the important part, Flight1 can't control what Garmin Jeppeson do, but they can easily inform us what the practical effects of any upgrade they recommend will be....and possibly they could even provide the details of how any newly imposed limitations can be legally worked around?

[DavidP 1,410]

 

 

I have owned the FT1 GTN750 since it came out... and I expect FT1 to provide solutions to a diminished product.

 

 

 

But F1 has the due diligence of;
1. Giving us the real, TIMELY poop re the Pros and Cons of upgrading up front when the Upgrade was announced. And;
2. Giving us "purchasers" of the F1 GTNX50, the apparent and easy choice of what databases it makes available

 

 

 

Ultimately, we that are not RW flyers can't expect ANYTHING from JEP/Garmin; WE... must depend on F1's transparent representation of the GTN x50, we purchased, and our polite, but firm demand for timely, pre-release notification, of updates and the effects we should expect therefrom.

 

I guess you must have missed this part of the upgrade announcement at F1's GTN/GNS forum:

 

Ability to change between the Jeppesen Worldwide database and the Garmin North America database from within the F1 GTN Config.
Please note that the Jeppesen Worldwide database does not contain airports that have the longest runway of less than 4000 FT.

 

 

 

..and owners of real world GTN 750s at $14,000 each, should be livid at the incompetence of either or both Jefferson and Garmin for not managing their rather simple database...this isn't rocket science...its rather basic RDBM ..

 

I don't really understand why you would think real customers should be "livid". As I said before, I would venture to suggest most users of worldwide databases would have deep pockets to the extent that this issue is insignificant i.e. corporate or higher customers. For the rest of us, a regional database would do the job. I don't undertsand how you come to that conclusion.

[Rimshot 1,135]

I guess you must have missed this part of the upgrade announcement at F1's GTN/GNS forum:

 

Ability to change between the Jeppesen Worldwide database and the Garmin North America database from within the F1 GTN Config.

Please note that the Jeppesen Worldwide database does not contain airports that have the longest runway of less than 4000 FT.

 

Come on David, do you really expect us to carefully read announcements?? On a serious note, you are absolutely right about everything you said on the matter.

[ubersu 78]

We need another thread started...if this one gets closed.

 

We should not have to pay for Jeppeson/Garmin incompetences, nor the perpetuation of same through F1.

 

Chas

You do realize that whining about reality in this forum will get you very little. Perhaps complaining in the Flight1 forae would be more productive, but I doubt it.

 

DJ

Edited October 19, 2016 by n4gix
Removed excessive and unneeded quoted text.

[hesynergy 67]

Come on David, do you really expect us to carefully read announcements?? On a serious note, you are absolutely right about everything you said on the matter.

Ahhhh I see, we need to go to the forum to read the caveats...before downloading an upgrade, prudent in this case, perhaps, but should hardly be a requisite for updating a product you already own...

 

and curiously no info from F1 as to how to retrofit the previous Un-compromised version in that forum

You do realize that whining about reality in this forum will get you very little.

 

Perhaps complaining in the Flight1 forae would be more productive, but I doubt it.

 

Whining?...Pretty prejudicial, doncha think...read the plea....F1 is culpable, only because we have no recourse with JEPP/Garmin albeit they were the cause of the problem...therefore we must look for solutions from F1 was precisely my point...if you would simply read... For us simmers it is a Flight1 issue.

 

So, having made the points I wanted to....I believe it's silly to respond to the "Whiney Sayers"....with any but concrete remedies to the problem.

 

...so onward to the solution providers like BobSk8 et al, and hopefully F1's clientele if not F1 themselves.

 

Regards,

Chas

[barrel_owl 304]

and curiously no info from F1 as to how to retrofit the previous Un-compromised version in that forumprecisely my point...if you would simply read... For us simmers it is a Flight1 issue.

 

 

If you have a copy of GTN 1.14 and the older Garmin Trainer, you can simply uninstall the newer version und reinstall the older one.

[edpatino 1,964]

Dear Garmin NavData subscriber,

 

I'm not sure if this has been discussed here before, but for the new Garmin Trainer with limited airports in the worldwide database, you can always use the database you like from the previous version, rename the file and substitute the one into the DB folder of the new PC Trainer. In this way you'll be using the new GTN 1.16/1.17 with a complete database for the world.

Bert from here (Avsim) could give more details to those interested (PM him).

Cheers, Ed

Edited October 20, 2016 by n4gix
Removed excessive quote!

[Rimshot 1,135]

Ahhhh I see, we need to go to the forum to read the caveats...before downloading an upgrade, prudent in this case, perhaps, but should hardly be a requisite for updating a product you already own...

 

Well, in this case you may have learned reading about an update before installing is very useful.

I'm not sure if this has been discussed here before, but for the new Garmin Trainer with limited airports in the worldwide database, you can always use the database you like from the previous version, rename the file and substitute the one into the DB folder of the new PC Trainer. In this way you'll be using the new GTN 1.16/1.17 with a complete database for the world.

Bert from here (Avsim) could give more details to those interested (PM him).

Cheers, Ed

 

Or check post #60 in this thread.

[n4gix 4,947]

I'm not sure if this has been discussed here before...

Post #60 provided this information. Thanks for mentioning it again though!