Programming EGLL to KIAD: waypoint MOWND300036

[drdickie 2]

Recently flew this route.  According to FlightAware, the flight plan is:

 

EGLL

MOWND300036

TOPPS

ENE

BAF

HYPER7

KIAD

 

Can anyone translate "MOWND300036" for me?  I cannot find an answer on-line, or else am entering the wrong search question.  There is a MOWND reporting fix in Eastern Canada.

 

And, how do you enter into the PMDG FMC?

 

Thanks!

[ESzczesniak 128]

I think that's a bearing/distance waypoint.  I forget how to enter it...or even the order (think it's bearing, then distance).  It uses MOWND as a base and is located bearing 300 for 36 NM.  Apologies if I'm remembering this wrong.

 

P.S.  I'm also wondering if that's a redispatch route.  It looks like it only takes you from Canada to Dulles, but doesn't have any of the NAT points or European info before the pond.  I suspect the flight was originally filed to some place in eastern Canada and then "redispatched" while still in the air.  This practice is fairly common on atlantic crossings because there's a couple tricks you can play with fuel reserves to reduce the overall fuel (and therefore weight) needed to be held in reserve.

[Mike777 163]

Often, for intercontinental flights Flightaware only shows the part of the flight plan in or near the North American continent.

 

Mike

[scandinavian13 5,192]

And, how do you enter into the PMDG FMC?

 

There's actually no need to do so...

 

There's a difference between what will show up on FlightAware versus what was actually used in the plane. Looking at the route itself it's missing about 75% (highly unlikely you're going to get a direct routing across international boundaries), and that it somewhat conveniently shows up on the border of the US and Canada. Knowing that the NAT region requires you to fly a specific track, the missing segment over the Atlantic is another giveaway.

 

So, what happened?

 

First:

FlightAware's data services can only get to the data that they have access to. Different countries have different stances on security and openness about data and neither NATS (UK) or Canada have a very open data policy (though one is a bit more open than the other, and it might surprise you which one that is). With that, the only data FlightAware (and most other tracking sites) can get to is the United States (when it comes to plans).*

 

Second:

Note flight plan availability when it comes to directionality. In other words, look at a flight between KIAD and EGLL, and EGLL and KIAD. The KIAD to EGLL route will have a full route, but the EGLL to KIAD route will pick up at the border. This is because the data for the KIAD to EGLL route is filed through the FAA system and then passed downline, whereas the inverse is true for EGLL to KIAD. Another item is that, when a flight plan is filed, automation in the background finds where the flight plan will cross various sectors, and will forward the data to those sectors, only for the segments those sectors are responsible. In other words, when NATS UK got the flight plan, the only portion that made available through the FAA was "MOWND300036 TOPPS ENE BAF HYPER7 KIAD."

 

Third:

The reason for the place/bearing/distance (PBD) waypoint is ATC automation. In order for the system to accept the plan, it needs to know where to "start" the route. Since ATC systems rarely include nav information about anything outside of what's necessary for that facility, they usually do not contain fix information too far outside of their own areas of control. All the same, the plan should pick up as close to the airspace border as possible. MOWND is close to the border (and one that the FAA's ATC automation recognizes, as it is close to the border), so it is used as a position reference for the bearing and distance reference to place a point on the border. Now the FAA ATC automation knows that the flight should enter its airspace and can begin tracking it more effectively between that entry point and the final destination.

 

 

 

...all that to say that, while someone could explain how to enter a PBD way point, when it comes to a flight plan like this, it's not something you'd actually use in the plane. The crew on this flight didn't either.

 

 

 

*For those of you wondering how they get position data in other countries, it is done by collecting the data through volunteers who put up ADS-B stations and send the data to FlightAware. If you look at a flight from over there, note that the positions come from "FlightAware ADS-B" instead of ATC facilities (which you'll see more of when the flight enters US airspace).

 

 

 

 

 

P.S.  I'm also wondering if that's a redispatch route.  It looks like it only takes you from Canada to Dulles, but doesn't have any of the NAT points or European info before the pond.  I suspect the flight was originally filed to some place in eastern Canada and then "redispatched" while still in the air.  This practice is fairly common on atlantic crossings because there's a couple tricks you can play with fuel reserves to reduce the overall fuel (and therefore weight) needed to be held in reserve.

 

Interesting thought, but no. All ATC automation and flight plan processing here.

 

Source: I used to work with the FAA, NATS UK and Canada (and other NAT Region participants: Iceland, Portugal, etc.) to study and improve traffic flow through that region and routinely looked at route data from all of the participants.

[drdickie 2]

Thanks for the very thorough explanation!

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Thanks for the very thorough explanation!

 

Welcome!

[downscc 1,327]

Welcome!

Since you're being so accommodating, what is going on with these flights I've found from Fedex FX2 KMEM-EGSS:  JKS025015 ENE J573 EBONY N325A ELSIR 5000N/05000W 5200N/04000W 5300N/03000W 5300N/02000W MALOT GISTI DUB LIFFY UL975 WAL LOREL4F

 

The PDB waypoint looks system generated just like the EGLL-KIAD example except this flight originates in the CONUS, the departure DP and enroute segments to ENE are missing.  I've not seen this with any other US operator.

 

Fedex flights are interesting because they often fly off the NATS during off peak hours too, it's interesting to plot them and compare them with previous and current day tracks and times to see how they pull it off efficiently.

[pcubine 143]

JKS025015 ENE

It looks like some of the route is missing. JKS is just east of Memphis and ENE is in Maine. Seems long for a direct in the northeast even at nighttime.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Since you're being so accommodating, what is going on with these flights I've found from Fedex FX2 KMEM-EGSS:  JKS025015 ENE J573 EBONY N325A ELSIR 5000N/05000W 5200N/04000W 5300N/03000W 5300N/02000W MALOT GISTI DUB LIFFY UL975 WAL LOREL4F

 

The PDB waypoint looks system generated just like the EGLL-KIAD example except this flight originates in the CONUS, the departure DP and enroute segments to ENE are missing.  I've not seen this with any other US operator.

 

Fedex flights are interesting because they often fly off the NATS during off peak hours too, it's interesting to plot them and compare them with previous and current day tracks and times to see how they pull it off efficiently.

 

Probably an airborne reclearance on a new route. When a controller makes an edit to the flight plan, it'll show up on FlightAware with the edit. The initial PBD is going to be somewhere near the aircraft's current position so that route monitoring processes don't lose their minds.

It looks like some of the route is missing. JKS is just east of Memphis and ENE is in Maine. Seems long for a direct in the northeast even at nighttime.

 

A direct routing to a PBD waypoint would definitely be a rarity. More likely a reclearance using the PBD as the initial position for the flight.

[jtsjc1 3]

Thanks for the explanation Kyle. Very interesting and stuff you don't really get someone with RW experience to clarify.

[scandinavian13 5,192]

Thanks for the explanation Kyle. Very interesting and stuff you don't really get someone with RW experience to clarify.

 

Welcome!

[BlueStar 323]

Fedex flights are interesting because they often fly off the NATS during off peak hours too, it's interesting to plot them and compare them with previous and current day tracks and times to see how they pull it off efficiently.

 

 

 

I suspect the FDX flight is on a Random Route that will take it North of the NATS.  That is why you see no reference to a NAT on the flight plan.  At that time of day the NATS will have been Eastbound. 

 

blaustern

 

 

Source: I used to work with the FAA, NATS UK and Canada (and other NAT Region participants: Iceland, Portugal, etc.) to study and improve traffic flow through that region and routinely looked at route data from all of the participants.

 

 

Kyle,

 

Unless things have changed since the last time I visited an ATC Center, the complete flight plan is sent to the Centers on all flight including overseas flights.  The entire flight plan would not be shown on the controller's flight strip because of the lack of room.  The controller will only get what information is needed to separate aircraft in their sector.

 

I believe the reason that the flight plans coming out of Europe are not complete on Flight Aware is a European regulator issue where the European flight plan routing can not be provided to the public. 

 

blaustern

[scandinavian13 5,192]

 

 

Unless things have changed since the last time I visited an ATC Center, the complete flight plan is sent to the Centers on all flight including overseas flights.  The entire flight plan would not be shown on the controller's flight strip because of the lack of room.  The controller will only get what information is needed to separate aircraft in their sector.

 

Correct. You can fetch the entire plan in the FAA system if you're behind the walls. It's in the system, but FlightAware exists post processing on the external side, which is where it exists as stripped apart. Part of that stripping is removing the foreign part, but also center to center processing. Note that, even for a US flight plan, you'll see doubled airways, which is a result of processing for the individual centers. If it crosses a center boundary, it will usually get a repeated airway in the external data.

 

Now that I'm looking back at what I wrote above, I see what you're referring to. Definitely wrote that incorrectly. Corrected it.

 

 

 

I believe the reason that the flight plans coming out of Europe are not complete on Flight Aware is a European regulator issue where the European flight plan routing can not be provided to the public. 

 

Yep. We dealt with a lot of this when we were working with the NAT data. Gotta love international relations.