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Question On Real World Flight Planning

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European airports have started to support Constant Descent Operations in order to save fuel and reduce noise. So unlike STARs in US that end with vectors, STARs in Europe contain "merge points" that allow the aircraft calculate optimal descent profile and skip vectors.

 

The United States is doing this now too. Most of the nations major airports have been updated to utilize RNAV SIDs and STARs, some are still in the process of getting this done, like Southern California. The arrivals allow for an optimize profile descent, and usually end on an IAF for either an ILS or RNAV RNP approach. A good example is San Francisco and the SERFR or DYAMD arrivals.

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European airports have started to support Constant Descent Operations in order to save fuel and reduce noise. So unlike STARs in US that end with vectors, STARs in Europe contain "merge points" that allow the aircraft calculate optimal descent profile and skip vectors.

 

 

 

In Munich they fly Continous Descent Approaches (CDA) when there is only little traffic:

http://nav.vatsim-germany.org/files/edmm/charts/eddm/public/transition/EDDM_TRAN-03_CDA_08L.pdf

 

Otherwise they fly the "normal" STARs.

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TL;DR: Put in the box what ATC tells you to do. Put it in the box when ATC tells you to do it. Don't put anything into the box if ATC didn't tell you to do it. Don't let the box do something ATC didn't tell you to do.

 

-------------------------------

 

I only saw this thread a couple days ago, and wanted to add my thoughts on the issue.

The responses I have seen so far fail to highlight a very important understanding of the route loaded into the FMS.

I am planning a route for my next FSX flight, and thought this would be a good time to make this post.

Before the question can be answered, I think it's important to understand the context in which this discussion takes place. My frame of reference is the United States, so I will be quoting relevant regulations from the F.A.A. Since these are most likely I.C.A.O. standard, I expect there to be little regional differences. My references are not the complete regulation, but only the portion I feel is relevant.

First, the requirements for IFR flight in Controlled Airspace:

§91.173 ATC clearance and flight plan required.
No person may operate an aircraft in controlled airspace under IFR unless that person has—
(a) Filed an IFR flight plan; and
(b ) Received an appropriate ATC clearance.


Our clearance will contain an assigned route. Next, we consider our requirements regarding the route we were given:

§91.123 Compliance with ATC clearances and instructions.
(a) When an ATC clearance has been obtained, no pilot in command may deviate from that clearance unless an amended clearance is obtained, an emergency exists, or the deviation is in response to a traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory. However, except in Class A airspace, a pilot may cancel an IFR flight plan if the operation is being conducted in VFR weather conditions. When a pilot is uncertain of an ATC clearance, that pilot shall immediately request clarification from ATC.
(b ) Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft contrary to an ATC instruction in an area in which air traffic control is exercised.

Given our assigned clearance, which is required, we must comply with that clearance unless we get authorization to do otherwise.. or an emergency exists.

Very rarely will an aircraft (such as a B-777) be given a full route clearance. Often, the assigned routing will be "cleared as filed." Remember that it is a requirement for IFR flight that a flight plan must be on file. The regulations dictate what is required information in that filed flight plan.

§91.169 IFR flight plan: Information required.
(a) Information required. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person filing an IFR flight plan must include in it the following information:
(1) Information required under §91.153 (a) of this part;

§91.153 VFR flight plan: Information required.
(a) Information required. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, each person filing a VFR flight plan shall include in it the following information:
...
(5) The proposed route, cruising altitude (or flight level), and true airspeed at that altitude.

If ATC assigns, "cleared as filed," this is a clearance in which compliance is mandatory. If the clearance is to some waypoint/navaid, and then "as filed," your route must be that filed after arriving at that point.

So what route do you file? This isn't written in regulations, but "Preferred IFR Routes" exist to ease the process of getting an ATC clearance. If in normal operations the route for a given city pair is always the same, it's easier if you file the correct route on your flight plant, so that ATC doesn't have to modify it with a lengthy "full route clearance." You make it easy on them, they make it easy on you.

 

So far, it seems that nobody has made notice of the regulatory aspects of what gets put into the box. With this context, I can accurately answer the questions posed by the OP!
 

 

 Is the FMC pre loaded with the flight. Including SID Flight Plan and STAR before take off?

If these procedures are part of the ATC clearance, then yes they are loaded before takeoff. If you intend to navigate by the FMS, then the route loaded must exactly match your assigned clearance.

 

**Does the pilot/copilot manually load the SID?**

 

This depends on the situation and airline. Some airlines will use ACARS to send the flight plan to the aircraft. If the data exactly matches the clearance ("as filed"), then it can be loaded automatically. If it does not, then the pilots must manually load the correct procedure. If no SID is assigned, then none will be loaded.

 

**Is the STAR loaded after ATC has assigned your landing runway?**

 

Depends. Has the STAR been assigned as a part of your ATC Clearance at the departure airport? Were you "cleared as filed", and the STAR is in your filed flight plan?
Then it must be loaded into the FMS.

Does your assigned (for filed if "cleared as filed") route nave no STAR? Then no star is loaded.

Has it been assigned or changed en route? Then the change must be loaded into the FMS (both pilots confirm the change).

Hopefully the context of FMS routing helps to answer these questions.

 

 

Robert Toten

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TL;DR: Put in the box what ATC tells you to do. Put it in the box when ATC tells you to do it. Don't put anything into the box if ATC didn't tell you to do it. Don't let the box do something ATC didn't tell you to do.

 

-------------------------------

 

I only saw this thread a couple days ago, and wanted to add my thoughts on the issue.

 

The responses I have seen so far fail to highlight a very important understanding of the route loaded into the FMS.

 

I am planning a route for my next FSX flight, and thought this would be a good time to make this post.

 

Before the question can be answered, I think it's important to understand the context in which this discussion takes place. My frame of reference is the United States, so I will be quoting relevant regulations from the F.A.A. Since these are most likely I.C.A.O. standard, I expect there to be little regional differences. My references are not the complete regulation, but only the portion I feel is relevant.

 

First, the requirements for IFR flight in Controlled Airspace:

Our clearance will contain an assigned route. Next, we consider our requirements regarding the route we were given:

Given our assigned clearance, which is required, we must comply with that clearance unless we get authorization to do otherwise.. or an emergency exists.

 

Very rarely will an aircraft (such as a B-777) be given a full route clearance. Often, the assigned routing will be "cleared as filed." Remember that it is a requirement for IFR flight that a flight plan must be on file. The regulations dictate what is required information in that filed flight plan.

If ATC assigns, "cleared as filed," this is a clearance in which compliance is mandatory. If the clearance is to some waypoint/navaid, and then "as filed," your route must be that filed after arriving at that point.

 

So what route do you file? This isn't written in regulations, but "Preferred IFR Routes" exist to ease the process of getting an ATC clearance. If in normal operations the route for a given city pair is always the same, it's easier if you file the correct route on your flight plant, so that ATC doesn't have to modify it with a lengthy "full route clearance." You make it easy on them, they make it easy on you.

 

So far, it seems that nobody has made notice of the regulatory aspects of what gets put into the box. With this context, I can accurately answer the questions posed by the OP!

 

If these procedures are part of the ATC clearance, then yes they are loaded before takeoff. If you intend to navigate by the FMS, then the route loaded must exactly match your assigned clearance.

 

**Does the pilot/copilot manually load the SID?**

 

This depends on the situation and airline. Some airlines will use ACARS to send the flight plan to the aircraft. If the data exactly matches the clearance ("as filed"), then it can be loaded automatically. If it does not, then the pilots must manually load the correct procedure. If no SID is assigned, then none will be loaded.

 

**Is the STAR loaded after ATC has assigned your landing runway?**

 

Depends. Has the STAR been assigned as a part of your ATC Clearance at the departure airport? Were you "cleared as filed", and the STAR is in your filed flight plan?

Then it must be loaded into the FMS.

 

Does your assigned (for filed if "cleared as filed") route nave no STAR? Then no star is loaded.

 

Has it been assigned or changed en route? Then the change must be loaded into the FMS (both pilots confirm the change).

 

Hopefully the context of FMS routing helps to answer these questions.

 

 

Robert Toten

I think his questions were quite simple. Is the route loaded before takeoff to include SID and STAR? Is the SID loaded manually? Is the STAR loaded after the runway is assigned. It's very apparent that the OP unfamiliar with real world ops and was looking for insight to mirror what's done in the real world. He was given some varying answers that answered his question depending on SOPs/ops. As I've stated, I've always loaded everything into the FMS in every operation I've been in to include military ops. We load it and as one guy read of the points, LAT/LONGs, miles and headings, the other guy steps through the FMS confirming it. When ready for clearance, we put on headsets and request it or get it VIA PDC. We both write it down, read it back and then update the FMS.

 

I think it was all pretty clear without the regulations. It's very implicit that you will always fly what you are cleared vs what you file/load into the box. Routinely on the North East coast, the clearance I receive is usually different from what I filed. I've become accustomed to the phrase "and then as filed" because it changes so much when you jam pack multiple airport with arrivals and departures into the same area. When operating out of the same airports routinely, it's easy to guess what departures and arrivals you will get based on the flow. For example, every time I go into KMIA from the North East, I always get the HILEY6 after being cleared to Ormond Beach. Controllers will usually tell you what to expect as far as arrivals, crossing altitudes and landing runways. They will even coordinate your approach request.  

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