DoD Announces Intent to Cease Distribution of Nav Data

[Guest B52Drivr]

John,I am a second generation American myself . . .so I DO understand what you are talking about. And, perhaps I didn't get my post across the right way. We have friends all over the world, and we have some, that really arn't our friends, unless we are doing something for them.I think the situation in Cuba, for example is just plain stupid. Our government needs to reach down, grab hold of their ears and pull their heads out of their butts on that one . . . and probably a good deal more. Cuba is no more of a threat to the US than I or you are.At the same time, I really do believe that we need to take a good look at our country and start doing more for OUR people. i don't wish to offend anyone, thats' just my opinion, for what it is worth.Mostly, I was just stateing information which I have been hearing from friends in the govt and Intelligence community for the past months. Good, bad or indifferent, it is going to come to pass that way I do believe.In the long run, what man does to his fellow man when he gets 'mean' is beyound any horror story Steven King could write . . . but it is a fact that certain individuals in this world, just don't care for anyone but themselves. The school bombing in Russia, 911, the Sudan, just about any where you can think of, we as humans are destroying ourselves . . . makes me think the 'Big Guy' upstairs is shaking his head and wondering if this wasn't such a good idea afterall.John, in essence, I really DO agree with you, and I also respect your opinions . . . wouldn't it be grand if the world could perhaps listen to calm minds and just be nice? With all my respect for you and yours,Clay http://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[Guest B52Drivr]

Dear Mike,I see you have survived Thanksgiving ... LOL and I'll keep quiet , I love you dearly, my friend. And although what I have written in the above is most correct in case in point, I too do believe that this particular action is absolutely STUPID.Yep, there will be an internal memo to you, Sir on your releasing classified data on Jepps charts monday morning . . .I suggest you call in sick. ROTFLMAOOh, and while you're at it, fella, give me a call, duh! Friends and neighbors, Mike is one of our 'good' govt. employees who actually has he head screwed on straight and knows the score . . . and if it wasn't so sad, laughs at what our great protectors do.I believe in security, I believe in taking care of one's own, I also believe in taking care of our friends and some that arn't normally so friendly, and I believe that stupid govt actions cause much more harm than good in the long run . . . and this navdata crap is one of them.So, you see, guys, I really am on OUR side, I'm a simmer too, ya know.Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[Guest LLgaz]

But no one here has yet answered the question: How on earth is restricting NAVDATA going to hinder terrorists if they want to attack? As someone who lives in New York City and was here on 9?11, I have to say that this really does not make me feel safer. Quite the opposite, it actually makes me feel less safe, because I now realise that we may actually have a bunch of village idiots running the show. God, Budda, Allah, Jehovah, Little green men from Mars........... Help us all!!!!!

[Orlaam 306]

>Won't effect me in the slightest... Don't use it now, so>won't miss it. :)>:-outta>http://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpg>>There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".>- unknown>"My daddy gives me up, to fight for you">- a US Military Members ChildSo then why did you respond? I'm sure there's a few things you use that I wouldn't miss either :-roll

[BladeLWS 0]

>>Won't effect me in the slightest... Don't use it now, so>>won't miss it. :)>>:-outta>>http://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpg>>>>There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness".>>- unknown>>"My daddy gives me up, to fight for you">>- a US Military Members Child>>>So then why did you respond? I'm sure there's a few things>you use that I wouldn't miss either :-roll Then why did YOU even respond?

[Mike S KPDX 597]

absolutly agree...

[Mike T 208]

It won't, but hey if you are a Colonel and want to make General, it is IMPERATIVE that you send at least one memo with the most stupid idea imaginable so that you can earn the respect of the other Generals who got there by submitting their own stupid ideas.I can see it now as you walk through a dark alley, a shady guy approaches you and says: *pssssst* hey you; YEAH, you. I got what you want right here, man. I got Sectionals, I got Approach Plates, I got Airway charts, hell I even got Airport Diagrams. And this ain't the cheap stuff neither, this stuff is the latest AIRAC cycle! How much you wanna buy?-or-BREAKING NEWS AT 11: This is Juanita Gomez live at Los Angeles International Airport; the Unites States Custom Service, in a joint sting operation with the FBI and DEA, have ceased the largest shipment of Aeronautial Charts in U.S. history! 85 people have been arrested and have been linked with Columbian NAVDATA cartels and the dreaded so-called Jeppesen Mafia. It is reported that the charts were hidden inside barrels of pickles to throw the NAVDATA sniffing dogs off the scent. Street value of the aeronautical charts, which included the highly illegal and deadly New York Sectional, is estimated to be over $1 billion dollars. General Ima Poophead from the Department of Defense commented that: "In no uncertain terms, we see this as a victory in our war on navdata. This operation will seriously hinder the capability of flight simulation enthusiasts all across the United States to fly in any realistic way and makes sure that it never falls into the hands of children who might have learned something." In other news, another terrorist attack occured tonight in major cities across the U.S. No government officials were available for comment as they were all busy confiscating NAVDATA. Over to you Bob.*sigh*Mike T.

[Guest wildfire563]

As a real world very low time pilot, I would like to hear the thoughts of some pro pilots on this. I can't believe that AOPA will allow them to do this.It sounds to me like the industry finally got an excuse to complain to the Bush people to restrict access to the data so they can make even more money off of it. This action will not in any way shape or form restrict anybody's access to this data. It is required data for flying, and will be accessible in some way to anybody who has to fly, and therefore, anybody who really wants it will be able to get it no problem whatsoever.I ONLY believe that there is an economic reason for this. Perhaps the DOD is trying to save money, but as far as I am concerned, it is far more likely the industry requested and got what they wanted, and our government is using a lie once again to get us to comply. No, I do not believe our government is being run by idiots, except perhaps that they believe they can lie to us and we will believe them.I think there will be a fight. While it is true this will benefit a few people, it is also true that a lot of money has been spent and organizations created to make this data available, and as it is necessary to fly by, I predict there will be a big stink over it.Ultimately, this is an issue of safety, and it is the government's job to provide safe skies to all pilots. I don't know why the DOD was involved in the first place (why isn't it being provided by the FAA?), I suppose it was thought to be the best way to pay for it at the time. Perhaps this is just the result of a fight between the FAA and the DOD, and the DOD is just flexing its muscles to get the FAA to take over the function.Thomas Perry

[Guest christianholmes]

This is an unretouched transcript of the actual conversion that lead to this monumental political insight:Congressman: What's NAVDATA? General: It's how airplanes navigate.Congressman: Is it poisonous?General: No.Congressman: Is it a weapon of mass destruction?General: Ummm, no- Sir, I... Congressman: Does it have any ties to Osama Bin Laden?General: No, sir, none that we know of.Congressman: That sounds dangerous! Why wasn't I notified?General: Sir, it's been around forever. Harmless really.Congressman: Harmless as Ted Kennedy with a fifth of scotch! Attack it immediately! General: Attack what Sir? The NAVDATA? It's a bunch of maps essentially. Actually we make it. We, the government. We get the data, and we print it, and we publish on the internet.Congressman: We PUBLISH ON THE INTERNET!? You don't mean the internet right? You mean the other internet. The one Al Gore invented. That one has some good porn. Did I say that outloud? Somebody get me a towel.General: Sir- There are people in the room. Can you please put that away? I think the Chinese Ambassador is becoming horrified.Congressman: Sorry. Had a flashback. Frisco- '69. Anyway, I will not jeopardize the security of this great nation for the sake of a few airplanes! I want NAVDATA gone! All of it! General: Sir? We need the data to navigate. Without it, nobody would know where they were going. Not even us. And quite fran...Congressman: Do it! And now! Those Navdatians will never know what hit them. Not even the purple ones! I like meat pancakes! Do I smell monkeys?General: Mr. Ambassador. How was your flight?Anyway, I don't think it will ruin my simming. At least all my addons will have the same cycle (trying to think positive)

[n4gix 4,947]

>It sounds to me like the industry finally got an excuse to>complain to the Bush people to restrict access to the data so>they can make even more money off of it. This action will not>in any way shape or form restrict anybody's access to this>data. It is required data for flying, and will be accessible>in some way to anybody who has to fly, and therefore, anybody>who really wants it will be able to get it no problem>whatsoever.Thomas, you and I may be the only ones who read the entire article, including the third column.Foremost among the "secondary reasons" for this restriction was that of protecting the financial interests of those foreign governments and private publishers who stand to gain from this draconian and idiotic restriction of public information... :-roll

[Brian Doney 127]

>Foremost among the "secondary reasons" for this restriction>was that of protecting the financial interests of those>foreign governments and private publishers who stand to gain>from this draconian and idiotic restriction of public>information... :-roll Exactly.If it was such a freaking security concern, I'm sure it would be postponed till next year.... :-rollCome on everyone, just roll over and take this one too...would expect nothing more from ya....:-fume

[Guest tango_d]

OK - like I say, it won't stop me simming (no sir - absolutely not) and whilst it's annoying, of course we'll live with it !!As long as it's not the start of yet more draconian measures and rules that might threaten our fantastic hobb.An Interesting and burning topic nevertheless. I'm off to the Flightsim show now in Solihull (Birmingham) UK, for an exclusive on the PMDG747 (oops - very off topic)Happy Flyin AllRegardsEd :-)

[Guest repaid22]

Hi, Banning this information is quite useless in the fight against terrorism. If "they" were to Hijack a plane wouldnt that plane have either an FMC or a GPS with all the pertinant data imbedded into it. Not to mention, that if they want the data bad enough, I'm sure it would easily be obtained. Adam

[Guest babua]

For one its purely a commercial trickery in the garb of security. Ofcourse, it will be available but you need to register, verify and pay a fee!! Nothing ever changes in this world. Coming to the larger issue of freedom-most of you people in america are blessed lot if you compare the restrictions we have in my country.Here are some restrictions to give you an idea1. Photography not allowed: In indian landmass and airports you can be jailed for photographing!!! Can you beat it? My country, my own aircraft and if i click a pic..out to jail for 3 yrs!!! You need prior permission by filling up a dozen forms if you need to click you wife and your own aircraft inside the airport!!2. Airport not visible to public: Airports have a perimeter wall which will make the walls of abu ghareb pale to insignifance. Its looks like those high security jails. Nobody can do any sort of watching and then they lament why enough young people are not taking to flying!! In a domestic flight you'll be frisked thrice and your personal baggage opened before everybody twice-just sort of smelling your undies they'll do everything. God forbid if you are an computer technician and carry "multimeter" with those deadly red and black wires!!! The airport manager will talk to you as if you came from falluja!!3. As a private pilot I cannot scan my license and put it internet-immediate loss of license and call from blue coats. As a PPL in VFR i cannot fly over any major city and cirlce just to enjoy the view-immediately sukoi fighters will engulf me like bees and will force me down.4. Charts not freely available so do with old charts with pencil marking on new buildings, landmarks etc and then the best part-from time to time blue coats will come to interrogate everyone at the FBO and if they find pencilled building on the chart-oh! My GOD you are a terrorist planning to attack important buildings!!!5. Interrogated for 5 hours at airport for being caught coming from US with CHPro yoke and rudders-first hand experience!!So freedom is a matter of relaitivity. Enjoy your freedom whatever you have, there will always be others who'll be worse off or better off.

[Guest Peter Sidoli]

Two days after the awful events of 9/11 I flew a business jet from the UK to BRNO.The Uk Government in their extreme wisdom slapped a 20 mile restriction zone around London centre.We passed along the edge of that zone climbing through 20+ thousand feet.In a dive it would have taken between 2.5 and 3 minutes for the business jet to reach the centre of London ie a pretty futile gesture in placing such a zone around London and one aimed at being seen to be doing something for the public face.The aviation world was severely damaged as politicians continued to make even more futile and practically meaningless gestures which have serious consequences on aviation, our freedom our livelyhoods.In that way the terrorists have won.Now for FAA registered pilots who fly N registered planes abroad it is an ever more difficult occupation to run the ring of security checks and time consuming to do so.Nav data is another pointless reaction. It could equally be deemed that a goverment could ban the production of home sims with or without such data because the sim could be used for VFR practice navigation.Or even that Microsoft made an internal decision that the public perception of their sim was having a more negative effect on the company as a whole than the benefits the games profits bring and scrap it.Dont believe it! it could so easely happen as another move to cutail our freedoms in our so called free society.Really the only practical solution will be in aircraft design where there is eventually no access to the cockpit and no direct communication between the cockpit and cabin.Cabin staff would have to communicate through a ground station to the crew as the crew do now through ATC and in such a way no terrorist demands would ever be passed on and there would be no entrance to the cockpit from the cabin.In that way 9/11 could never again be repeated.All these futile moves do is to further damage aviation and restrict what is supposed to be the goal we all seek. Freedom for decent people to get on with their lives.Peter