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better jet from Eaglesoft?

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Guest OneTinSoldier

>Thanks for taking the time for answering the whole thing.>>You are right about ESDG is the only one developing private>jets, and that's why there hasn't been a real push to have>their jets improved.> >I would love my Citation X to be the way I want it to be.>That's my complaint. There's a lot to improve in those panels,>and seeing what ESDG has done with the Cirrus, I have no doubt>they have the capability.>>IMO they should rebuild all those 2d panels (I am not a fan of>VCs, so I don't really care how they look) and start selling>all those products again, with those improvements, giving some>kind of discount to owners of the older product.>>Just check PMDG or LDS. They had a great product, and what do>they do? they keep releasing patches after you thought the>product is perfect, and those patches are free to owners of>the original thing. They are more expensive, well, but I am>sure most of us would be happy to pay over $40 for a Citation>X with last generation gauges and a fully functional FMC.>Wouldn't you?>>Leo>>Hey, BTW, I have nothing against ESDG. Like I stated the>Cirrus is one of the best payware available these days and it>is ESDG's.>Dillon has some good points about a number of ESDG's BizJets using older development techniques. Still, you're points are well taken Leo. Yes, I would be willing to pay a little more for higher resolution panels(VC in my case) with some slight improvement to the gauges, and most of all, a fully functional FMC. Something to keep in mind though is that ESDG is somewhat about offering a good bargain. Not having a fully functional FMC has kept the cost down from PMDG/LDS pricing. And ESDG probably doesn't have quite the market share that PSS has. Yep, I'd have paid $40 for the Citation X at the time I purchased it if it had a fully functional FMC. And we're not alone with that desire. There were a number of people asking that the Cit X be made with a functional FMC on the ESDG forum when the plane was under development. I think it was even suggested that one please be made as an additional pay for addon. But it just wasn't in the cards. Again, they do make it clear before you download and purchase the plane. Overall, not a huge deal to me but at the same time, yes I would really like one. Perhaps ESDG will take it under consideration for a future, and more expensive project. Ron, are you still here? Any comment? ;)I also tend to think that a fully functional FMC would have made the Citation X considerably longer in development time. And then you'd probably have to FMC bugs out of the gate as seen in the initial releases of other FMC products. Something to consider, have you ever seen a freeware offering that has a fully functional FMC? I'm not aware of one. Perhaps the freeware Fanda Dash 8 has one? I don't know.As Dillon has pointed out, a couple of the birds(Beechjet/Hawker, Citation X) might be getting a facelift using newer development techniques, which I can't say I know much about, but I hear that they are always advancing. Let's hope for a pleasant surprise in the updates(don't expect an fmc tho). Nevertheless, I find my Eaglesoft BizJets thoroughly enjoyable and of very good quality as they are right now.Regards,Jim Richards

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Without getting too far off topic, or doing some sort of comparison of other companies and their products, let me say that every issue mentioned here has been mentioned in our support forums and other places. Please note that "rehashing" the same issues accomplishes nothing since we LISTENED the first time.:-) Our policy is to LISTEN to customer feedback, examine how best to accomodate the feedback, then begin to implement improvements as personel and schedules permit. This is an ongoing process and no amount of "rehashing" the feedback will change the process. To that end, we can say that none of our products are exempt from revision, update, upgrade, or even a total rebuild. The decisions on whether to revise, update, upgrade, rebuild, or even drop a product are made with care while considering development time, costsbenefits, scheduling, etc.Flightsimulator enthusiast should not expect that "fully functional FMC" and "GaugeGraphics Updates" will be included in our products at no extra cost. A "Discount" or "Reduced Price" for a meaningful upgrade to existing owners is under consideration but those decisons are addressed at the end of development and testing.In short, no need to think that our quietness on a subject means that we are not listening or not working on certain issues. We can say that there are a number of promising projects we would like to do over the next twelve months and as always, we will announce something when we have something:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Guest Knikolaes

>Lol,>>Guys, I have a many payware aircrafts, and the ESDG ones are>the worst. Just a few words explaining why I think they are>bad.>>1. Buy and install RXP JL4, check how your default Lear looks>and let me know how many default gauges do you find. Answer,>almost none. The moving map is ages better than the ESDG>ones.Or even better -- buy en ESDG bird and have RXP gauges in it too :-)>>2. Get any PSS Airbus, and if you don't like the model just>merge them with any of the great freeware we have available.>They cost about a half of what the ESDG ACs, and the panel, is>a complete panel, with a fully functional FMC.>PSS Airbuses are way outdated anyway. Unsure what the comparison is here -- maybe I missed the point -- but you can VERY easily merge anything you want with an ESDG bird the same way as -- well -- every single aircraft available for FS. I have not encountered a plane yet I have not been able to add stuff too in the panel.>3. Oh, yeah, the models of ESDG are awesome. But they are>totally FR killers. try the Socata TMB700 from Avsim. It's>free, it has almost 0 impact on FPS and the model is as good>as any ESDG one (or even better).>I have no frame issues except with the Cit X -- of course that may be cured too as I have done about 5 hardware upgrades since I bought and flown her . . . THAT's what I forgot to reinstall . . . oops. I did try that TBM700 as well . . . great AC, but I VERY VERY quickly replaced that horrible soundpack that came with it with an alias to the Flight1 PC-12.>5. Get the Aeroworx King Air. It also needs the same stuff the>ESDG ACs need (A decent EFIS + a good navigation device such>as the GNS 430 or 530, both well provided by RXP), but the>quality of the model, external, internal, 2d panel is totally>superior to any ESDG jet.>I agree that the King Air is an awesome aircraft, though i have to disagree that it "needs" anything. She has a GREAT avionics package already, but I DO agree that adding the RXP Weather radar is a GREAT upgrade for her. I also agree that the RXP GNS is a great item for her as well. I am COMPLETELY addicted to flying the MED version :-) Must be the EMT Certified side of me :-)>6. Get the Beneaviones CII + Leon Seale's CII panel (both free>at Avsim). Let me know if a virtual cockpit and/or cabin is>worth the price of the CII, because the 2d panel for sure>doesn't.>Very easy to alias that panel to the ESDG citation if you so prefer. And if you own the great FSPS then it's even easier yet. Personally the models and VC are the primary reasons I love ESDG.>a. Fully functional FMC totally integrated with the moving>map.That would indeed be awesome.

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Guest lalo lolo1

I have to be sincere and agree that I never visited the ESDG forums. That is something in their favor, as it means I didn't have to look for answers to a bug I found (meaning I didn't find any).I am happy they are developing upgrades to their jets, in fact, very happy. I wish I could fly these nice birds feeling the awe I feel when I fly others, so if they are making them that way, yes Sir, I am going to get them, no matter they come with a discount or at full price (well, a discount would be fair, wouldn't it?).Well, at least this discussion was good to learn about those releases. Has anyone any idea when should we expect for them?Leo

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Leo, If you have visited our support forums you will know that we never announce a time for a project to be completed or a price point.Normal practice for us is to anounce beta testing, and again shortly before release:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Guest OneTinSoldier

Ron,You seem to be replying to me, and perhaps making a statement to the general public too. I feel the need to respond. Everything you said is common sense. I just want you to know that I don't constantly dwell on features that a developer has clearly stated aren't going to be modeled. I realize that you guys listened the first time. But I also believe rehashing is bound to occur at times when the subject pops up and might just be something you'll have to learn to live with. ;) You should know that customers sometimes feel that being quiet accomplishes nothing. :) I would like to think that talking, even if it's 'rehashing' a sensitive subject, shows that we still care. Just as letting us know that your still listening shows you do too. :)I hope you don't think I was being demanding, provocative, or boisterous. I was simply letting my desires be known and it's great to know that you still listen. I don't expect anything other than what I received at the time of my purchase and for bugs(if any) to be fixed. But I hope you don't expect us guys to remain forever quiet about past subject matter. Personally, although I had fully read the threads on the matter when the Cit X was under development/beta and understood your stance, and still do, I myself had never even said one iota about a fully functional FMC until this thread where I happened to air my opinion/desire, not an expectation or demand.Cheers,Jimmy Richards

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>Apples and oranges... One man's Rembrandt is another man's >Piccaso...>The ESDG CII is intended as a 100% faithful reproduction of an >actual aircraft's panel, not one individual's impressionist >rendition of a completely imaginary panel... Bill,I sure never intended to have my Citation panel rendition compared to yours. I've always considered yours an absolutely professional work of art, and mine only an attempt to give something back. However, I guess maybe I do take a little exception to the '100%' vs. 'completely imaginary' assessment. Obviously I don't do this as a profession but I did attempt to make it look like a Citation panel, albeit some license was taken. In essence they are both reproductions of aircraft panels, they both do very similar things, and - fact is - they are both completely imaginary.No real offense taken Bill. I guess the 'imaginary' thing just bugged me a little as an aircraft owner, and whose hangar partner captains a Citation.Regards,Leon Seale

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Jimmy,Our response was general in nature and was not aimed at anyone personally.The "rehashing" statements were to help flightsimmers understand that we all have schedules and priorities that must be attended to, and we cannot respond to the same issues every time they are repeated by someone who may have missed our previous responses.:-)We do not think that customers are unreasonable in describing what they wish to see in our products. We do however, wish that customers would draw a little more patience out of their "patience accounts" when it comes to demanding xyz features.You sir, have exhibited patience on the FMC issue. To you, and others like you, we extend our gratitude. Work continues daily on a number fronts and we can only say that when certain things are "soup" we will announce that the "soup's ready" Just be patient until you hear from us:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Leon, Though I don't speak for Bill, let me say that we have the highest regard for developers like yourself. I'm reasonably certain that Bill does not go around bashing other peoples work. On the contrary, Bill has a reputation for helping other people and I would not be surprised to see Bill apologize if he has offended you in any way:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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Guest Knikolaes

>Jimmy,>>Our response was general in nature and was not aimed at anyone>personally.>>The "rehashing" statements were to help flightsimmers>understand that we all have schedules and priorities that must>be attended to, and we cannot respond to the same issues every>time they are repeated by someone who may have missed our>previous responses.:-)>>We do not think that customers are unreasonable in describing>what they wish to see in our products. We do however, wish>that customers would draw a little more patience out of their>"patience accounts" when it comes to demanding xyz features.>>You sir, have exhibited patience on the FMC issue. To you, and>others like you, we extend our gratitude. Work continues daily>on a number fronts and we can only say that when certain>things are "soup" we will announce that the "soup's ready">Just be patient until you hear from us:-)>And that is precisely what keeps me crawling back for more of your products :-) To me an understanding staff is as important as the product itself. :-)

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Guest JDKL

Allen,You will enjoy the X. M = 0.92, up to FL510, and 3400 nm range. This is ESDG best jet so far IMHO.Ed

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Guest OneTinSoldier

Hi Ron,Than you for the friendly and kind reply. I agree with Christopher Dittmar that you Eaglesoft guys understanding and openess makes for a great customer experience.I have just got done taking a nap and now I'm ready to go and purchase the Cirrus, get checked out in it, and fly her around for a while. Woo-hoo! :)Thanks again,Jim Richards

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Guest Knikolaes

You will DEFINATELY love the Cirrus. I had to adjust the eyepoint because I found seeing out of the VC with the default eyepoint a bit hard, but once I found a good eyepoint I was in awe and now I use this AC for most of my cross-country flying.As for the Citation, the Citation II Ambulance is my fav of their corporate jet series :-) Followed closely by the Citation X.

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>>Apples and oranges... One man's Rembrandt is another man's>>Piccaso...>Bill,>>I sure never intended to have my Citation panel rendition>compared to yours. I've always considered yours an absolutely>professional work of art, and mine only an attempt to give>something back. >>No real offense taken Bill. I guess the 'imaginary' thing>just bugged me a little as an aircraft owner, and whose hangar>partner captains a Citation.Leon, as I said, "One man's Rembrandt is another man's Piccaso..."Both painters are very well respected for the artistic talents they consistently demonstrated, even though working in different genres.Normally, I choose my words carefully, but in retrospect I can see where "imaginary" was a poor choice. What I intended was to highlight the difference between "realism" and "impressionism."I have had your panel installed in the freeware CII for some time. That I have never deleted it should say something... ;)In any case, I do apologize for any inadverent bruises of which I've been the proximate cause, as such was surely not my intention! ;)However, in all fairness, credit for the ESDG CII's panel graphics should go to Bobby Hayes, who's artistic talents turned my sow's ear into a silk purse...


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556

Interests: Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling for Milviz

Many Thanks to All That Donated To Our Server Drive!

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>Hi Ron,>>Than you for the friendly and kind reply. I agree with>Christopher Dittmar that you Eaglesoft guys understanding and>openess makes for a great customer experience.>>I have just got done taking a nap and now I'm ready to go and>purchase the Cirrus, get checked out in it, and fly her around>for a while. Woo-hoo! :)>>Thanks again,>>Jim Richards>Jim, let us know here how you like the Cirrus!:-)


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton ASEL

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