Trim Problem after Take Off

[citationjet 3]

Hello,

 

maybe I over´saw the topic but i have a huge problem after take off with the 300. It climb like a rocket , nearly to stall and it is very hard to get it under control and make it a "normal" climb. The Trim is set in the green field between 7.5 and 7.7.

Is there anything I make wrong?

Thank you in advance for a quick help. I have the latest version of the Phenom installed.

Cheers,

Mark

[simbol 5,767]

Hi Mark,

 

A couple of questions before we start helping you with this problem:

 

1) Are you taking off with the autopilot on or off?

 

2) Are you using a Joystick? is so have you calibrate it lately?

 

3) Are you able to adjust the electric trim? if so are you using the Joystick or doing it manually with the keyboard?

 

I use the Phenom 300 everyday for all my flights and I don't have any problems during take off except that I have to control the speed to avoid damaging my flaps

 

Regards,

Simbol

[citationjet 3]

Hi Simbol,

 

thx for getting back to me:

 

1) AP is off on take off

2) Yes using a MS Joystick and i have two buttons for trim which I use on all other aircrafts without any issues

3) Yes I can use these buttons to change the trim seeting in the phenom, i use the joystick

 

Regards,

Mark

[Aether 37]

Hi Mark,

 

Can you post your flightplan please?

 

From - To

waypoint, Altitude, Time

 

Regards,

Cees

[simbol 5,767]

Hi Simbol,

 

thx for getting back to me:

 

1) AP is off on take off

2) Yes using a MS Joystick and i have two buttons for trim which I use on all other aircrafts without any issues

3) Yes I can use these buttons to change the trim seeting in the phenom, i use the joystick

 

Regards,

Mark

 

Mark, 

 

The phenom 300 is quite powerful during takeoff, you should set flaps 1, adjust the trim accordingly to your weight (for FSX simulation 8.5 should do) and set the throttles to T/G (Take off) you will start rolling on the runway and around 120 Kts you should start pulling the joystick back, the airplane will start climbing quite fast watch, your vertical climb and speed I normally retract the gear and as soon as I get to 165 kts I retract my flaps, speed will increase quite fast at this stage so I normally retract the throttle to the Climb setting and increase my vertical speed in order to avoid exceeding 250Kts under 10,000 and adjust the trim to avoid over pitching the plane (this varies from 10 to 12).

 

If the ATC does not clear me for higher altitudes I have to reduce the throttles in order to avoid over speeding so the trick is to keep your vertical speed and power settings under control.

 

I normally take off manually but after 2000 feet I engage the autopilot with V/S control configured between 3000 to 4000 f/min and I keep adjusting the throttles accordingly in order to keep the plane under control.

 

You will notice that the higher the plane gets you will need to adjust your vertical speed in order to avoid stalling the plane, for example at 25,000 you cannot continue to climb at 4500 feet/min since your speed will reduce very quickly and you might stall the plane, I always keep an eye to the V/S while climbing and adjust it as necessary to keep an steady ground speed of 300kts.

 

As an example this is how my climb profile looks:

 

0 ------ 5000             VS 3500               Power throttles to takeoff then reduce to Climb or less.

5K -----10,000          VS 4500               Power throttles to Climb

10K---- 20K              VS 3000               Power throttles to Climb

20K---- 28K              VS 2800 / 2500    Power throttles to Climb

28K ---- 32K             VS 1800 / 1200    Power throttles to Climb

32K ---- 40K             VS 1200 / 1000    Power throttles to Climb

Cruise                       VS 0    throttles to Cruise setting

 

I hope this helps.

 

Regards,

Simbol

[citationjet 3]

Hi Simbol,

 

really appreciate your detailed answer! Based on your datas I will give it a try tomorrow evening and will get back to you as soon as I can with a result.

 

Regards,

Mark

[citationjet 3]

Hi Simbol,

 

i made a flight tonight from LOWI to LDSP with your suggested settings. Trim was at 8.5 on take off. It was a little better after take off , gear was retracted  but aircraft climb like a rocket again, not so extremly as before but i guess it was around 6000ft/min . I get it under control after switch on AP and adjust the climb around 4000ft/min and then climb to cruise level with your v/s settings.

I will try another flight.....

 

Regards,

Mark

[simbol 5,767]

Hi Mark,

 

What you describe is normal, I suggest to adjust your power throttle settings after retracting your landing gear, this way you can reduce your speed, adjust your V/S to 2000 / 3000 and wait for further instructions from the ATC.

 

As soon as your ATC clears you for higher altitudes you can set you throttles to "Climb" and adjust your V/S accordingly.

 

I use ProATC so my takeoff clearance are typically like this: Cleared for takeoff via xxxx departure, climb and maintain 6000 ft, departure freq is xxx.xx

 

With the Phenom 300 If I climb too fast I would reach 6000 feet in a minute!, although the real plane can do this it would be crazy to perform such takeoff techniques every single time since you wouldn't have time to perform the necessary checklist, fly the departure procedures, contact ATC, enable your autopilot, verify your course, do your instruments scans, etc. think about all these in 60 seconds? it is impossible to perform such takeoff for a single pilot since the workload is way too much and everything is happening too fast, also think about your passengers they would feel like they are going to space!.

 

So what I normally do is take off, gear up, flaps up, check that engines are OK and then adjust the power throttles to have a smooth climb (2000 / 2500 ft/min). When I am closer to 6.000 I would normally get further clearance from the ATC, something like AVC 443 cleared to 17,000 and at this stage my autopilot will be already configured to fly the flight plan, V/S climb settings are configured and running, the plane is stable, checklist is completed, etc. So I increase the power throttles setting to "Climb" and adjust the VS accordingly like I explained before.

 

Enjoy your flights, just keep your power settings under control it is the key for light / mid size Jets and remember that every plane behaves differently.

 

Regards,

Simbol

[citationjet 3]

Hi Simbol,

 

thank you very much for your answer again. Really appreciate it. I think I will get it under control on my further flights. As you mentioned I will have a closer look to the pwoer setting on take off ;-)

But thanks again for your detailed answers and informations!

 

Regards,

Mark

[Spidierox 4]

Hi Mark,

 

As Simbol already stated manage the energy: do not be afraid to reduce the throttle (even to 60-70% if necessary).

 

I use the trend speed vector to monitor the speed:

I aim for the speed (fe. 250), then I watch the purple bar (next to the speed line) indicating how fast I will be accelerating (resp. decelerating) and control that acceleration using the trend speed vector so that it is reasonable.

When having reached 250 kts, I reduce throttle until the trend line is zero (but I always keep monitoring it!)

 

Hope this helps too...

 

kind regards,

Dieter