Update From the Dovetail Games Flight Team

[BobFS88 635]

n4gix

 

 

>>In any case, don't be lazy. Google using the keywords "ibm lawsuit against Microsoft" and find just a bit over 1,000,000 hits!

 

I didn't need to Google it since I was around reading thought the treads while all of that of that was unfolding.

But for your information I google it just to be sure, which is while I ask the question. 

 

Bob

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

The issue was about how Gates secured the rights to a variant of CP/M that ran on Intel 8086 CPUs, sold the idea to IBM and renamed it MSDOS. Digital Research which developed CP/M, never sued over the copycat OS.

[BobFS88 635]

jabloomf1230

 

 

Correct.

 

Soon after IBM and Microsoft where partners during the OS's development and distribution for desktop PC up until 1991.

 

Bob

[Slayer 190]

DX12 would be great, I guess very few have watched the city rendering demo that crushes a DX 11 render or the same scene.

 

Using DX11 vs 12 is a business decision  based on least common denominator. You know I have seen many games that support multiple render targets but I guess they say it can't be done even though it's been done many times before.  

 

It's better to stick with DX 8 because everyone can run it right? No. Lazy devs looking for a quick buck is why DX9 stuck around for so long. Can't kick dirt on that thing fast enough IMO. 25 million budget and ACES couldn't get DX 10 working properly, yet we get an independent person finally fixing all their glitches and bugs with an addon. That's what happens when the bureaucracy and hypocrisy get to be too much and probably why the ACES were disbanded.

[dave2013 1,130]

The one thing we don't have to speculate on, is the fact that the DTG FS will *not* be backwards compatible at all, with current FSX/P3D add-ons. Martin was very clear about that in earlier posts.

 

Frankly, I don't know how they could make enough money releasing a new FS platform without starting from a blank slate, so they can sell DTG's own scenery and plane add-ons. And also interest enough 3rd party developers to get on board. Developers like Orbx, Carenado, PMDG etc. aren't going to be interested in supporting this product, if users can just port their old FSX add-ons into the new sim.

 

No one said that FSX and P3D addons will be compatible with DTG's simulator.

 

What I said was that it would be nice if current addons could be modified to work in, or stated differently, be made compatible with, the new sim.

 

This probably won't be the case, but it would sure save a lot of folks a lot of money.

 

Dave

[Wobbie 938]

I think that the best thing is to regard the DTG's product as a totally new sim.

Maybe it will set new standards by being DX12. Maybe a new sim should be optimised to run on a new operating system.

 

It just cannot be everything to everybody, especialy the guys that expect a product that is compatible with Microsoft's sim, or even P3D, to be compatible with a product from a totally different vendor.

 

That will save a lot of complaining that stuff is not compatible.

I can see the forum posts coming up (as they usually do) ...... I will not buy DTG's sim because I cannot use my old stuff..

[SamYeager 244]

I can see the forum posts coming up (as they usually do) ...... I will not buy DTG's sim because I cannot use my old stuff.

The trouble is so many people seem to adopt an either/or attitude to this subject. Just because somebody buys DTG's sim doesn't mean they can't use their old sim anymore! TBH just about everyone will use the old sim as well because it will take quite some time for DTG and 3PDs to produce a large enough number of add-ons to satisfy most users.

 

DTG's trainsim users are facing the same quandary as well. The eventual replacement for their existing trainsim product is due to be released next month but will only have one (American) route with three locos. The first UK and German routes and locos aren't due until the autumn. It seems a nice product and I enjoyed the, brief, beta last month but just like DTG's flightsim it will be a long wait before it matches the scope of the existing trainsim product.

[Guest]

Don't think anyone would disagree with that. The difficulty I see is judging just when a "plainly unfinished" product becomes a "finished" one particularly when Dovetail has said all along that this should be viewed as a base for the long term.

 

And saying that they are concentrating on "visuals, performance and experience" (doesn't that basically cover everything?) can only lead to even higher expectations.

 

Let's hope they can deliver on their promises.

 

 

Bloody good point - a recently released - "as finished" Airbus is a cracking example of that.

[n4gix 4,947]

I think that the best thing is to regard the DTG's product as a totally new sim.

Maybe it will set new standards by being DX12. Maybe a new sim should be optimised to run on a new operating system.

The problem for DX12 is that it will only run under Windows 10. #Win10NotMyOS

[Raven9000 272]

The problem for DX12 is that it will only run under Windows 10. #Win10NotMyOS

Maybe a problem for you, not for the vast majority...

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

I'm not sure I understand the aversion to Win10 either. First of all, it was a free upgrade at one point. Second, even if it's no better than Win 7, it's definitely not worse. I already have Win 10, but if I didn't and a new sim was released that utilized DX 12, I would switch, because DX 12 provides performance enhancements.

[Paraffin 2,197]

DX12 would be great, I guess very few have watched the city rendering demo that crushes a DX 11 render or the same scene.

 

DX12 is not essential in the modern era for a flight sim with great eye candy.

 

Take a look at any of the recent X-Plane 11 beta videos. Not a lick of DX there, it's running on Open GL with an upgrade path to Vulkan. That lets it support Windows (all recent versions), Mac, and Linux to expand the flight sim market. And it looks terrific in the new version (IMO).

No one said that FSX and P3D addons will be compatible with DTG's simulator.

 

What I said was that it would be nice if current addons could be modified to work in, or stated differently, be made compatible with, the new sim.

 

This probably won't be the case, but it would sure save a lot of folks a lot of money.

 

If it's saving folks a lot of money, then it's not a reason for any of those add-on developers to support the new sim. And you'll WANT that support if the new sim offers better scenery and aircraft than you're getting now with FSX/P3D. Otherwise why would you buy the new sim?

 

Third party support will be crucial to the success of the new DTG sim, just like it is for X-Plane and Aerofly FS2. And they won't support it if people can easily move their old stuff over.

[dave2013 1,130]

DX12 is not essential in the modern era for a flight sim with great eye candy.

 

Take a look at any of the recent X-Plane 11 beta videos. Not a lick of DX there, it's running on Open GL with an upgrade path to Vulkan. That lets it support Windows (all recent versions), Mac, and Linux to expand the flight sim market. And it looks terrific in the new version (IMO).

 

If it's saving folks a lot of money, then it's not a reason for any of those add-on developers to support the new sim. And you'll WANT that support if the new sim offers better scenery and aircraft than you're getting now with FSX/P3D. Otherwise why would you buy the new sim?

 

Third party support will be crucial to the success of the new DTG sim, just like it is for X-Plane and Aerofly FS2. And they won't support it if people can easily move their old stuff over.

 

In case you didn't know, ORBX already announced that they'll be supporting DTG's simulator. I believe that FTX Global textures will come standard with the new sim, another indication that it will use the same core engine and structure as FSX.

 

Where are you and others getting the idea that DTG's flight simulator will be a completely new, built from scratch, flight simulator?  You're just setting yourselves up for a big disappointment.

 

Dave

[Paraffin 2,197]

Where are you and others getting the idea that DTG's flight simulator will be a completely new, built from scratch, flight simulator?  You're just setting yourselves up for a big disappointment.

 

Nobody is expecting "built from scratch," it's been clear from the beginning that DTG will build on FSX code. But their own marketing has promised a "Next Generation flight sim," and they've said there will be no backwards compatibility for FSX/P3D add-ons. We need to get past that and look forward. Let's see what they come up with. 

[SteveW 1,792]

"Not a lick of DX there, it's running on Open GL"

 

That's camping things up a tad -lol. These are graphics abstractions running on the same GPU. The Open GL implementation follows on the technology and success of the hardware advanced with the aid of Direct X development over the last decade.