FSX-MS FSX wrong water surface wakes under hovering helicopters

[Kieloben 2]

Dear fellow simmers,

 

 

I noticed something wrong from the beginning, when the first helicopter occured at the FS98.

It still is wrong at the FS9 und FSX, thus I do place this toppic under two titles in this FSX- and the AVSIM-FS2004-Forum to hope that there will be some-one out there with a smart answer.

 

The wrong detail discovered ist this:

 

By hovering a helicopter above water the main-rotor's arodynamical downforce creates wakes and spray on/at the water's surface.

 

In reality it is like this: - if you would slowly decent your hoovering hight from, let's presume 1.000 ft above the water's surface down to let's say 1 ft above the water's surface:

- first it occures an O-shaped Ring at the water's surface. By coming closer with the helicopter down to the water's surface, the O-type ring of wake and spray caused by the air flow would become a small waiste, cutting the O into an 8 with the "border" between the two Os creating the 8th waiste just in the direktion of the helicopters fuselage.

 

That is being this way, since the fuselage is cutting the downflow in two parts. By the mass-movement and some aerodynamical effects, the airflow forced by the main rotor will re-unite somwhere below the fuselage but not directly under it.

 

The more heavy an helicopter gets, and the more power it's engine have, and the slower and the lower it flys, the better the 8 is visible at the water's surface, or at grass, or whatever weak surface you would like to hoover.

 

If you look at a double-main-rotor-helicopter, like the Boeing CH-47 Chinook, then it would be an 8, with one O under the first main rotor and the other O under the secound main rotor, just meeting another under the fuselage to create an 8.

 

If you would lower your hoovering hight, then both of that Os are creating an 8, what would give an Image of an dopple 8, meeting each other to create a castle-blue-print-ground-wall-image.

 

Yet in FS98, as well as in FS9, as well as in FSX it always is a single O any helicopter's airflow creates at any water's surcafe, totaly equal how heavy or powerfull or big any helicopter gets, and equal how slow and how low it flys.

 

 

Is there any way to correct it, or are even correct effects around waiting for a download here, or there?

 

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

 

[n4gix 4,947]

In a short word, no it is not possible.

[Kieloben 2]

In short my reaction: "aarg".

 

Yet, Bill, thank's for your reply.

 

Obviously we have to live with it and logical I'm not able to mark it solved.

 

 

Sincerily,

Stefan

[Kieloben 2]

Dear Bill,

 

after having acloser look into it, I'm pretty sure your're wrong.

 

the helicopter-water-effect in FSX, as well as in FS9 already is devided in two different ones.

By decending the hoovering hight first a white water-dust circle occures.

Decending further, getting closer to the axctual water, it disaprteas and changes to the white wake ring shown at the water's surface.

 

There are simmers, changing textures here and there, even cloud formations,and whatever one thinks of.

 

It also must be possible, to exchange that ring-shape wake on the water's surface bei an 8.

 

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

[Kieloben 2]

Dear Bill,

 

I even had a closer look into it and now go for its solution,.

 

I downloaded rotwash.zip and "play" with its possible modifications. 

It looks like, as if it would be an issue that is possible to solve and even, by creating different named effect images and reorganising some Details in some programmed details im FS-double-rotor-helicopters, like the CH-47, oder the Fa 223, it looks like as if it would be possible to individualize it to create it an single eight below single-rotor-choppers and a double-eight below double-rotor-choppers.

 

(I admit, the Fa 223 will be the most difficoult one, since it has to be a faded double eight in a bigger eight in a even bigger circle.)

 

I'm a family man in a fulltime job and never did any effects, so it will take some time to closer get into it and figure it out in detail, yet the rough idea should work.

May be someone more spezialised on effects is reading this and may solve it faster.

If this wont happen on the long run, I will have it solved at myself.

 

Sincerily,

Stefan

[n4gix 4,947]

Good for you! I'll admit that I just replied "off the cuff" based only on my own reading, but honestly just because it hasn't been done before doesn't mean it can't be done.

 

I'm still not convinced that it can be done for specific helicopters though...

[Kieloben 2]

Actually,

 

it just is a water-effct.

It should be possible to make certain helicopters not to "call" the default "fx_rotowash.bmp". but an other one, like "fx-rotorwash_8.bmp" for ordinary helicopters, and "fx_rotorwash_88.bmp" for tandem helicopters, like the Boeing CH-43 "Chinook", or a "fx_rotorwash_odd8.bmp" (or so on) for tandem helicopters that (like the Focke-Achgelis Fa 223) have the rotors placed on a left and a right fuselage-tail instead of having it placed on the fuselages front and aft section (like the allready mentioned "Chinook".

 

My wild guess is: it would be easy to create the effects.

 

The defficulty just ist to make a certain helicopter to "call" it instead of the default effect.

 

Yet I decline any "it is not possible".

Think about working arrestor cables and steam catapults at aircraft carrieres. That had not been possible in FS9, nor FSX.

But creative simmers made it work.

 

How easy compared to that has it to be to make a certain aircraft to call a certain effect and to not call another one?

 

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

[spokes2112 179]

It should be able to be accomplished according to SDK. You would have to edit the specific aircraft.cfg (or sim.cfg) file for each specific helo under the [effects] section. Just make your own effect.

 

 If no entry is made a default effect file will be used. 

 SDK | effects - https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId547795 

 

[effects]

.. others

landrotorwash= my effect name

waterrotorwash= my effect name

[Kieloben 2]

Dear spokes2112, you're wrong.

 

The rotorspray effect is called "fx_rtr_wtr.fx" and the image forced by it shown at the water is called "fx_rotwash.bmp"

 

The "aircraft.cfg" at for examble the default Bell206b Jet Ranger III in FS9 shows this:

 

[EFFECTS]

wake=fx_wake

water=fx_spray

dirt=fx_tchdrt

concrete=fx_sparks

 

At the same helicopter in FSX it says in the "aircraft.cfg":

 

[EFFECTS]

wake=fx_wake

water=fx_spray

dirt=fx_tchdrt

concrete=fx_sparks

EngineFire=fx_heliFire

 

Conclusion: the rotorwash effect "fx_rtr_wtr.fx" does not get triggered by any "aircraft.cfg".

Please next time with more competence.

 

What leads to the fact: - still not unsolved issue.

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

 

 

The "fx_rtr_wtr.fx"

What I forgott:

 

there is no sence in adding another rotorwash effect through the effect chapter in any helicopter's aircraft.cfg, if the wrong (default) one still show, since it get triggered somehow different.

 

At helicopters like the Chinook or the Fa-223 one then would notice the new 8 (Fa223) or double 8 (Chinook) with a circle in its center.

 

Nope.

The new effect has to replace the old one, not be added to it.

And it has to be different from Helicoptertype to helicopter type.

Thus we have to finde the place, were it gets triggered to then adjust it from helicopter to helicopter to get the rotorwash 1, 2, 3 (and of course to the simmers how do prefere that, the default one to the default Jet Ranger III).

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

[n4gix 4,947]

Stephan, your findings lead me to believe that this particular .fx file is - just like the fx_landing.fx file - hardcoded in the simulator's engine, and not configurable by end users at all.
 
It would have been nice indeed to be able to create custom landing light ground splashes, but since there is only one .fx file that applies to all flying objects, it simply is not possible.
 
On a side note, it may be only a problem with not being a native English speaker, but such remarks as "Please next time with more competence." are quite rude and condescending. Please try to be more polite in the future.

[Kieloben 2]

Dear "n4dix",

 

 

in the future I'll take care on your "On a side note, it may be only a problem with not being a native English speaker, but such remarks as "Please next time with more competence." are quite rude and condescending. Please try to be more polite in the future."

 

As you correctly guessed, I'm not a native Anglomerican language speaker. Most of the poeple on the planet as well as in the Web aren't.

In addition to that, I'm an autist. From then to then I'm not able to recognize the tune in communications. Often enough I'm just able to create and to follow the main-text only, not yet the sub-text.

 

It ist not an excuse, it just is a fact and I do work on changing my attitute to the better at all the time.

Thus, thank you very much for giving that feedback on that sentence.

 

Leaving the sideway, back to the issue:

- I learnt to distrust any pointing at "hardcoded in the simulator's engine, and not configurable by the end users at all."

My over-and-over-examble on that in the simmer-world ist the arrestor-cable-function in FS9 and FSX. It was hardcoded in the simulator's engine to not make it work and simmers did find a way to make it work.

 

Now there is this water-spray-issue embedded some-where in the FS9 as well, as in the FSX and very likely it ist possible to find and to change it.

 

I'm joining a forum like this, because I do strongly believe in the outstanding possibilities simmers are able to realize against any "hardcoded in the simulator's engine, and not configurable by the end users at all.".

 

It is proven by several times and issues, that there is no "hardcoded in the simulator's engine, and not configurable by the end users at all."

 

Actually, there is no "at all" at all outside the science of mathematics.

 

Back to the issue: I'm the guy who's able to modify given ".air" and "aircraft.cfg" at an aircraft to make it's chracateristics as real as it can get to real.world characteristis at the real-world-aircrafts, If those are known by me.

 

Others are able to create aircrafts, and/or ".ar"-files, or terra-mesh, or weather-phenomens, or sceneries, or complicatet stuff like arrastor-cable- and catapulting-functions.

I'm pretty sure, that there also is someone out there, being able to dig into the hardcore programming to find the landing-ground-splash-trigger at any aircraft to than customize it to let's say one, two, three.

 

If you look at helicopters and fixed-wing-aircrafts, then you'll notice the programmers to have put into the FS9 as well as the FSX at least two different "triggers" to ground-splashes already, to create the class of helicpoters and the class of fixed-wing-aircrafts to show up with different effects.

 

Like adding the arrastor-cable-function, it should be possible to add some more ground-splash-trigger-classes to  the FS9 as well as the FSX.

 

We only have to find a simmer who is able and willing to do that.

 

Where to find such a competence, if not at virtual-comunities like AVSIM?

 

 

Sincerily,

Stefan.

[spokes2112 179]

Proof is in the pudding -
 
The here for help creating new effects. 

This little .PDF can can help too. SDK for the built in SDK effects tool.
 
Over water, no water rotor wash is shown, sparks are.

 
 
Over land, no land rotor wash is shown, ski trails are. 

[Kieloben 2]

Dear Spokes2112,

 

that is great!

 

Thank's a lot!

 

With very best regards,

Stefan