New tire-force modelling for beta3

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

Maybe this fix could be applied in one last update for XP-10, since it appears to be in the old code - overlooked for years.

 

John

[Paraffin 2,197]

Maybe this fix could be applied in one last update for XP-10, since it appears to be in the old code - overlooked for years.

 

I kinda doubt it. It's not a serious flaw in the flight model like the torque effect that was fixed during the XP10 run. It's more of an extension of the existing static tire model. It almost qualifies as eye candy in my view, compared to all the other things they could be working on.

[CarlosF 1,235]

hmmm, this fix may also help with the moon's transition-friction, finally we will see the moon where it should be at 8:00pm.   :blink:

 

Jose will be very happy indeed! 

[Old_As_Dirt 160]

 

 

It's not a serious flaw

 

Seems pretty serious to Austin.  Don't think I ever saw/read him more excited!

 

John

[Paraffin 2,197]

Seems pretty serious to Austin.  Don't think I ever saw/read him more excited!

 

 

We get things in the sim that Austin is excited about, so that's good, but I still doubt we're going to see this ported to XP10. It would mean a new XP10 beta and release candidate cycle, and they're already running one for XP11. 

 

Meanwhile, I wish Austin would get that excited about a full 3D weather model that would give us vertical convection and thunderstorms. 

[Janov 2,383]

Austin does get excited about stuff pretty easily - then it takes month and years or forever to scale whatever he gets excited about (undulating terrain runways, vortex ring state in helicopters, turbulence, slippery runways in "icy" conditions...) back to a realistic level.

 

I am convinced that the current lack of tire friction in the "rolling model" (and the associated screeching sound) is absolutely due to the fact that he thinks it looks cool how the airplanes skid and swerve in strong crosswind.

 

I would also not be surprised if the new implementation of static flexn on ground will make the prop strike the ground on even the slightest bit of power application or make the plane buck down the runway like a young bronco. Mark my words. :blink:

 

He gets pretty excited about stuff - but he does not like to listen to people. X-Plane could be years ahead in commercial success if he did.

 

Jan

[jcomm 5,890]

Austin does get excited about stuff pretty easily - then it takes month and years or forever to scale whatever he gets excited about (undulating terrain runways, vortex ring state in helicopters, turbulence, slippery runways in "icy" conditions...) back to a realistic level.

 

I am convinced that the current lack of tire friction in the "rolling model" (and the associated screeching sound) is absolutely due to the fact that he thinks it looks cool how the airplanes skid and swerve in strong crosswind.

 

I would also not be surprised if the new implementation of static flexn on ground will make the prop strike the ground on even the slightest bit of power application or make the plane buck down the runway like a young bronco. Mark my words. :blink:

 

He gets pretty excited about stuff - but he does not like to listen to people. X-Plane could be years ahead in commercial success if he did.

 

Jan

 

Couldn't agree more with this description of the State of Affairs, since I use XP ( and that's since v2... )

I got tired of sending Austin emails...

It would be great if at least Laminar Research looked at the impact XP11 is having on the users community and see a great chance for advances like never before in sales, 3pds interest, etc...

 

Let's hope for the best.

 

Using a "zillion" of invisible undercarriages to cope with the silly implementation of ground physics isn't really the way, right Janov ? :-)

[FLAPS15 8]

Got to agree with the comments here, AM does come across as if in the playground it is my sim and you can play with it but I control it.

 

While I deeply admire the talent of AM and the team he has, would it not be better to concentrate on the basic fundemaentals of the sim to ensure it runs well rather that tyre friction or whatever.

 

I like a lot of users am seriously thinking of ditching esp for good and have been caught up,in the Beta, however the XP FS is lacking in a lot of good basic stuff weather atc etc.

 

Get this right and XP will be a great success generating income not only for LR but also all add on software companies, this is a golden opportunity so they should jump at it and Listen to the community....

 

We shall see I hope I am proved wrong...but it is an easy switch to jump back to other platforms if they ignore us the potential buyers...

 

Said my bit..

 

Wishing all a good xmas

[Janov 2,383]

Got to agree with the comments here, AM does come across as if in the playground it is my sim and you can play with it but I control it.

 

While I deeply admire the talent of AM and the team he has, would it not be better to concentrate on the basic fundemaentals of the sim to ensure it runs well rather that tyre friction or whatever.

 

I like a lot of users am seriously thinking of ditching esp for good and have been caught up,in the Beta, however the XP FS is lacking in a lot of good basic stuff weather atc etc.

 

Get this right and XP will be a great success generating income not only for LR but also all add on software companies, this is a golden opportunity so they should jump at it and Listen to the community....

 

We shall see I hope I am proved wrong...but it is an easy switch to jump back to other platforms if they ignore us the potential buyers...

 

Said my bit..

 

Wishing all a good xmas

 

Well, to be fair, a lot of the good stuff in X-Plane is also due to Austin being so stubborn and detached from user feedback. And X-Plane has been blessed with some very talented additions to the team, Ben Supnik alone is worth his weight in platinum, in my opinion. One of his dogmae is to "do it right", though. And doing it right requires a lot of planning and work (-> time).

 

Just think of the new "European buildings". The framework for regionalized autogen has been in the sim for YEARS - that is the kind of foresight that Ben applies to his scenery system. He has it all figured out in his head, just give him a few years to lay it down in solid code...and enjoy flying while you wait.

 

Jan

[Pascal_LSGC 298]

[...] Ben Supnik alone is worth his weight in platinum, in my opinion. One of his dogmae is to "do it right", though. And doing it right requires a lot of planning and work (-> time).

 

Just think of the new "European buildings". The framework for regionalized autogen has been in the sim for YEARS - that is the kind of foresight that Ben applies to his scenery system. He has it all figured out in his head, just give him a few years to lay it down in solid code...and enjoy flying while you wait.

 

Jan

 

I totally agree with you, Jan !

 

Cheers,

Pascal

[Murmur 3,941]

He gets pretty excited about stuff - but he does not like to listen to people. X-Plane could be years ahead in commercial success if he did.

 

Partly agree, but I have to say that he is receptive in general, even if not always.

 

In the years I emailed him about, among other things: FPS locking, the lack of inertia coupling, the lack of strobe lights glare in fog, the decrease of control authority at high-speed, the infamous prop torque issue, the exaggerated post-stall control authority. And all of these features have been implemented, often at the next major release, even if sometimes he apparently dismissed them.

 

On the other hand, several other brilliant ( :smile: ) ideas of mine have never been implemented to date.

 

The prop torque issue had been around years, but as soon as I provided concise and numerical data on the issue, he corrected it in a matter of days/weeks. Maybe if someone would provide the same for the tire friction issue, demonstrating that it's only 1/6 of what it should be, he would have to improve it.

 

And X-Plane has been blessed with some very talented additions to the team, Ben Supnik alone is worth his weight in platinum, in my opinion. One of his dogmae is to "do it right", though. And doing it right requires a lot of planning and work (-> time).

 

Agree, I think that 95% of the current commercial success of X-Plane (and, for the first time, the real possibility to compete as the leading flight simulator in the near future) has to be credited to Ben.

 

All the major choices of the last years, i.e. OSM based scenery system, crowdsourced airports, 64 bits, global lighting, HDR/PBR rendering, etc. (I assume Ben had the most influence on most of them?) have been incredibly long-sighted. Many of them were even ahead of their times and not fully appreciated, and are only now reaching their potential. But it's only thanks to them that today X-Plane has a chance to become a real competitor in the flight simulator market.

[rjack1282 316]

I think the patent trolls are finally getting to Austin with this wacky, stream-of-conscious write-up about static tire friction lol.  He's finally going off the deep end!

 

In all seriousness though, he and his team have done a fantastic job and you can't deny his enthusiasm. 

[HamSammich 17]

 

 

he does not like to listen to people. X-Plane could be years ahead in commercial success if he did.

 

I heartily concur--with your assessment of the bad and the good.

 

It seems we're all prisoners of Austin's enthusiasms, misconceptions (see his blanket statements about turboprops), and blind spots--for better and for worse. I think, though, that every software developer needs "An Austin." They just also need a normal human being for the other, more customer-facing aspects, of running a business.

 

Remember War Games?

 

"Remember when you asked me to tell you when you were acting rudely and insensitively?. . . You're doing it now."

"Mister Potato Head. Mister PoTAAAAYto HEAD!!"

 

Best,

 

Marshall

[soaring_penguin 428]

Well, we have Austin, who is the driving force, owner and very pasionate about his pet project. He is the reason we have this alternative to FSX for 20 years now.

And then there is Ben, I think he can be considered the head programmer and/or customer interface.

 

Laminar has a great team, driven by their passion about aviation, maybe moving slower on some domains, but way ahead on others.

Maybe not years ahead in commercial succes, but able to steadily build and perfect their program, and agile enough to change when hardware permits it.

(Heck, they even got x-plane running on low end devices like iPad and Android phones).

 

FSX (and P3D) are after 10 years still limited to 32bit and Windows architecture, do not forget that.

 

I do remember Flight Unlimited, Flight! and FSX, they got killed by their respective software houses.

I thank Austin to go his way independently, keep going man, continue to be so passionate about whatever you undertake, how little it may be, and don't give in !!! 

[sizziano 172]

(Heck, they even got x-plane running on low end devices like iPad and Android phones).

 

And LR has made way more money on this than they have on the desktop sim. By a wide margin, go figure.