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Gregg_Seipp

What helps with the sensation of speed on landing?

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Real sense of speed, depth, height, the size of your aircraft - as some posters noted VR is where it's at. I use Rift with Flyinside.

 

The sensation of speed is how close you are to objects you are moving past. In an airline sim, which I have flown at a Airline Training center, on final approach, there is nothing that close to you on short final, so you don't seem to be moving very fast even at the 140 knot final approach speed and these sims cost around $30 million dollars and are designed to convince the pilot that they are flying the actual aircraft. Same in real life, when you are landing a GA aircraft, you are not that close to anything on approach, so it doesn't seem you are moving very fast. I have landed on a 30 foot wide runway in Florida, and during that approach, it seemed I was flying much faster than usual, but still not as fast as when I am in a car   going the same speed driving in traffic.  Here is an F15 landing in Anchorage. Doesn't look much faster than when I land my T6 in P3D.  


spacer.pngBob Cardone         MSFS 2020     PMDG DC6,  JF Arrow  , Carenado Seminole , Mooney,Simple Traffic  

TrackIR   Avliasoft EFB2    ATC  by PF3    FlyVirtual.net  CLX PC

 

 

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Bob, I respectfully beg to differ. I sit in the jumpseat of B737s  quite often, and things are moving pretty fast on takeoff and approach.The only way to simulate this at home is to have a wide view at proper zoom setting - even with an ultrawide cinema screen, a triple monitor setup or even better, a curved projected image on a large canvas. 

 

You can be pretty darn close to a lot of things in a GA aircraft, especially at the smaller strips. While training for my PPL from Orlando Country Airport I was overwhelmed at the speed of things in a C172 - and moving to a Piper Aztec was really frightening, mostly because of the increased speed. It was a narrow strip, with lots of parked aircraft close to the runway, and a busy road just west of the runway. We did a lot of hops to Orlando Executive, and it is a rush as well. You fly over a busy urban jungle from all angles. When flying the "Shuttle Approach" over at Kennedy Space center we felt like the aircraft was hovering. That is  a seriously huge runway, but even that runway feels fast when you're close enough to the ground.

 

Using a youtube video to show how the perception of speed is while sitting in the cockpit of a real aircraft is totally useless... 


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When I went from one 25" display to three 27" displays the world of speed and immersion really kicked in.  Add in Track-IR and three Buttkickers... well, hold on to your hats!

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Bob, I respectfully beg to differ. I sit in the jumpseat of B737s  quite often, and things are moving pretty fast on takeoff and approach.The only way to simulate this at home is to have a wide view at proper zoom setting - even with an ultrawide cinema screen, a triple monitor setup or even better, a curved projected image on a large canvas. 

 

You can be pretty darn close to a lot of things in a GA aircraft, especially at the smaller strips. While training for my PPL from Orlando Country Airport I was overwhelmed at the speed of things in a C172 - and moving to a Piper Aztec was really frightening, mostly because of the increased speed. It was a narrow strip, with lots of parked aircraft close to the runway, and a busy road just west of the runway. When flying the "Shuttle Approach" over at Kennedy Space center we felt like the aircraft was hovering. That is  a seriously huge runway, but even that runway feels fast when you're close enough to the ground.

 

Using a youtube video to show how the perception of speed is while sitting in the cockpit of a real aircraft is totally useless... 

 

 

Got around 500 hours flying 172 and piper warriors and never had the sensation that I was really moving fast. The sim I flew in had 5 projection screens creating the image ( about $400,000 worth of projectors and screens) ( I trained people on the projection systems), and still didn't feel like the movement was that fast, but this is sitting in the pilots seat rather than in the rear of the flight deck which could possibly make a difference. 

 

here is footage of a 737 landing and this is about what I see when landing the NGX in P3D..     


spacer.pngBob Cardone         MSFS 2020     PMDG DC6,  JF Arrow  , Carenado Seminole , Mooney,Simple Traffic  

TrackIR   Avliasoft EFB2    ATC  by PF3    FlyVirtual.net  CLX PC

 

 

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Got around 500 hours flying 172 and piper warriors and never had the sensation that I was really moving fast. The sim I flew in had 5 projection screens creating the image ( about $400,000 worth of projectors and screens) ( I trained people on the projection systems), and still didn't feel like the movement was that fast, but this is sitting in the pilots seat rather than in the rear of the flight deck which could possibly make a difference.

here is footage of a 737 landing and this is about what I see when landing the NGX in P3D..

 

I think we're talking about differences in perception here.  When I look at that video of the 737 it seems fast to me.  I've not been getting that sense of speed much in the sim much.  My thoughts are that it's a combination of the following:

  • Detail of objects with known size like cars, grass, buildings trees, runway markings, tire marks.  As you perceive the size in combination with the detail you get a perception of how close you are to the ground which gives a sense of speed. 
  • Relative speed to other moving objects like cars and trains.  The smoothness of both the sim and the movement of the objects would be key for this.
  • Peripheral vision speed of objects.  I don't take what the VR folks are saying lightly.  I also think about zoom level vololiberista mentions might help.
  • I also notice how the vibration of the aircraft adds something to it

 

 


Sense of speed in this case is called ground rush. It can only be seen with a decent zoom. If you have a 16:9 screen your zoom should be set to 81%

 

I'm going to try this.


Gregg Seipp

"A good landing is when you can walk away from the airplane.  A great landing is when you can reuse it."
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If you have a 16:9 screen your zoom should be set to 81%

 

Er, why?

 

!


MarkH

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Because it increases the field of view. Ground rush is a factor because of peripheral vision. Which in MS sims is almost non existant because zoon is set as 1.

Or going ultrawide B)


 

André
 

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FYI - I (still) use FS9. Absolutely stutter-free and silky smooth with any scenery, weather or aircraft. - all maxed out. Tube-liners approaching and 'over the numbers' - FOV set to 50% - gives a fantastic sense of speed. Peripheral vision and smoothness do it for me. Flying the Level-D B767.

Cheers

Jont

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Because it increases the field of view. Ground rush is a factor because of peripheral vision. Which in MS sims is almost non existant because zoon is set as 1.

 

You aren't going to increase your peripheral vision unless you sit closer to the screen (or buy a bigger one). I guess you mean using a wider zoom gives a better illusion of speed in the absence of peripheral vision. The trouble is it also distorts the perspective and makes it harder to judge distances and (therefore) speeds. I still don't get why you're getting 0.81, unless that was just a typo. (BTW, I think default zoom is 0.7, at least on FSX.)


MarkH

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Core i7-7700K / 32Gb DDR4 / Gigabyte GTX1070 / 1080p x 3 x weird / Win7 64 Pro

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I recommend moving the eye point forward and then zooming out. Here is a clip I made showing the speed effect on landing at KCRW in the PMDG NGX:

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You aren't going to increase your peripheral vision unless you sit closer to the screen (or buy a bigger one). I guess you mean using a wider zoom gives a better illusion of speed in the absence of peripheral vision. The trouble is it also distorts the perspective and makes it harder to judge distances and (therefore) speeds. I still don't get why you're getting 0.81, unless that was just a typo. (BTW, I think default zoom is 0.7, at least on FSX.)

You have to balance the zoom according to your resolution and screen size. 0.81 is not a typo as you put it. It is a bit complicated to explain the maths here. But it's readily found via google. The aircraft developer also has to adjust viewpoints so that for example the correct perspective is from the Captain's position and not the centre of the cockpit.

If this doesn't make sense to you it doesn't matter. Just play around with the viewpoints and zooms until you get a satisfactory result.


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You could always try leaving the gear up Gregg!  :P The sense of speed at 6 inches above the runway looks quite amazing. 

 

I can't believe they had absolutely no reaction to the gear warning audio.  None.  Really???

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Ed Wilson

Mindstar Aviation
My Playland - I69

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