777 Nearly Slams into Mt Wilson after LAX takeoff

[bonchie 2,305]

45 flights per hour on a single runway compared to 105 flights per hour on multiple runways. Also less controllers working so the demands are not too far off all things considered. Not sure where you get 20 from

 

I am simply pointing out differences in culture not chest thumping, I guess you can't appreciate that or are just a grumpy individual. I am not from New Zealand as I was born in Toronto to parents from the USA. I have lived in USA Canada Australia and New Zealand. You can learn from differences or you can be blind to them, choice is yours

 

45 flights is their total capacity even at peak, not how many they actually average. You can simply go count up the flights from yesterday and do the math.

 

KORD averages 105 flights an hour. There capacity is even higher than that and during peak time, they are probably handling double that. The demands of a controller on approach where there may be 1000 planes flying is not the same as New Zealand's relatively docile air space.

 

You are making a bunch of generalized, culturally insensitive assumptions about another country and painting them as fact and then calling me grumpy for responding. That's ironic at best. Go fly around Paris or Beijing and let me know if they are talking slowly or like to constantly repeat themselves. It's not a US issue with professionalism like you are painting it. It's simply how it is in busy airspace all over the world.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

 

You are making a bunch of generalized, culturally insensitive assumptions about another country and painting them as fact and then calling me grumpy for responding. That's ironic at best.

 

Nah your just grumpy  :smile:

[DavidP 1,410]

 

 

Nah your just grumpy :smile:

 

:Applause:

[bonchie 2,305]

Nah your just grumpy  :smile:

 

It's "you're"...where's your professionalism bro

[757FO 143]

I will agree with Matthew that it is a cultural thing in the end, you can't compare a New Yorker to someone from New Zealand.  As far as Air China, I would imagine that this was not the 1st time this flight crew landed @ KJFK (or at least the Captain, I imagine the airline would not be scheduling an inexperienced crew on such long flight to a major airport.)

 

And Simon I understand your response  it was your initial post about "off course, it's the U.S that set me off a bit", but it's all good and I appreciate having a civilized and respectful discussion with you guys! 

 

Life is hard enough, and I consider AVSIM as a place to relax and discuss our hobby! 

 

Happy Holidays all!

 

Best regards

John.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

It's "you're"...where's your professionalism bro

Look mate, I started off with saying we are smaller and well managed...That was the point I was trying to make

 

I live in New Zealand which is small and well managed which leads to a very by the book culture of doing things

 

Which you followed by wanting to debate on how you are bigger. I was confused as to why. I saw it as either knee jerk reacting or I felt being grumpy or whatever. I am not going to debate that USA or KORD is bigger when I said we are small and easier to manage from the beginning. This is pointless.

 

I agree with John...Happy Holidays guys

 

Cheers

 

I'm out

[bonchie 2,305]

Yes and some countries are very by the book. I live in New Zealand which is small and well managed which leads to a very by the book culture of doing things for which people take pride in themselves. This is just the Kiwi Culture by comparison. The moment we enter the USA it is immediate the differences.

 

 

You bet if we went to KORD we would definitely roll our eyes at some of the terminology used or some of the way they handle aircraft by comparison.

 

Come on. You make these posts and then try to play it off like you were just saying you are smaller and well managed? No, you were clearly taking shots at the US system, their controllers, and culture. Which is fine, but don't get mad when someone continues the discussion with you and points out why some things might be different. Calling me grumpy, attempting to shut down the discussion is weak sauce. If I came into a thread and made some negative assertions about New Zealand, I'm sure you'd respond as well. As long as the discussion is civil, I don't see an issue.

 

As a pilot, I like to discuss aviation related issues. It's not a big deal.

 

I was just joking back with you as well in the last post. Hence the

I will agree with Matthew that it is a cultural thing in the end, you can't compare a New Yorker to someone from New Zealand. 

 

Heck, you can't compare a New Yorker to someone working Memphis or Houston approach down south either. Totally different cultures. That's why it's not really fair to make broad generalizations about the US system. Traffic levels, culture, and airspace are just different every where.

 

I was always amazed at how Potomac approach managed all the crazy airspace around there in such a professional manner.

[757FO 143]

 

Heck, you can't compare a New Yorker to someone working Memphis or Houston approach down south either. Totally different cultures. That's why it's not really fair to make broad generalizations about the US system. Traffic levels, culture, and airspace are just different every where.

 

True and I completely agree about making broad generalization of the U.S ATC system (nothing is perfect and I accept that there is room for improvement, but I would think that it applies to ATC Worldwide) . That is what I pointed out to Simon, and based on his response, I took it as he understood my point of view. In the end my point was, no matter where you go, there will be good and bad, it's a matter of making the best of it...

Happy landings

John.

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

I also agree. The culture in the USA differs as well. All it takes is a road trip from coast to coast to see that. Every state is unique

[757FO 143]

A road trip from coast to coast is on my bucket list Matthew

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

A road trip from coast to coast is on my bucket list Matthew

You will love it. USA and Canada are the best countries in the world to Road trip. My favourite contrast was going from New York to South Carolina and how much the accent changes just driving a few hours, it goes from 'Would you like another coffee?' To 'Y'all want more coffee?'

 

All of the regions are amazing

[TPerson 15]

Controller was really bad.  Can't understand why she would say turn southbound instead of turn right 180 or some other vector.  Very confusing for the crew.

 

The video below matches up the flight track with audio.  Aircraft basically went around the mountain well below the height of the peak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFdXax7Zh_g&t=21s

 

(Trying to steer this topic back on track)

 

At 5:58 in the video linked the track (green line) shown is wrong.  You can't go around Mt Wilson at 5500ft.  Mt Wilson sits on a ridge and isn't a mountain peak.  The ridge is at 5710ft. but one TV antenna rises 971ft above that.  For photos of Mt Wilson and its surrounding area go here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Wilson_(California)

 

Todd

[ViperPilot 81]

You will love it. USA and Canada are the best countries in the world to Road trip. My favourite contrast was going from New York to South Carolina and how much the accent changes just driving a few hours, it goes from 'Would you like another coffee?' To 'Y'all want more coffee?'

 

All of the regions are amazing

 

Matthew,

 

East of the Mississippi, "coffee" is brown colored Water with a slight hint of artificial Coffee flavoring.

 

You want real Coffee? Here's how you can tell the difference:

 

-- Stand something straight up in the Coffee pot (utensil, steel rod, horseshoe, etc.)

 

-- If it doesn't fall over, it's 'real' Coffee!

 

LOL 

 

Alan  

 

Best part of the ATC call... "EVA Air, what are YOU doing?"

[bjratchf 80]

What I've noticed in my years is that each busy airport has it's own "local knowledge/lingo" that must be known- and the USA is getting better at it with chart notices, etc. But on my descent to JFK/DTW/ORD/LAX/HNL, I have to brief "okay, what do we expect to hear going into this place" 

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

 

 

"EVA Air, what are YOU doing?"

 

 

Given the conversation between the controller and EVA015, I think I might have replied "Why, don't you know?".  LOL!!!

 

In the end, I'm happy about two things... that thinks worked out as well as they did (considering the alternative), and that none of the passengers knew what was happening when it was all going down.  Can you imagine hearing that as a passenger and having a clue what was really happening?

 

 

Hey... Happy Holidays my friends.