777 Nearly Slams into Mt Wilson after LAX takeoff

[BlueStar 323]

 

 

No, but is it necessary to be one in order to interpret:

 

Our differences of opinion are based on our different levels of experience operating in the ATC systems around the world. 

 

The controller's speech rate was not too fast nor was it hard to understand.  The LH crew certainly wasn't having any problems.  At no time was the crew confused in any phase of flight and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.  What I did see was excellent CRM. 

 

The controller did add an extra "to" in the speed restriction, but that is very minor.  The crew understood and read back the speed restriction.  If the crew had been confused they would have verified the speed restriction with ATC. 

 

blaustern

[swiesma 625]

Our differences of opinion are based on our different levels of experience operating in the ATC systems around the world. 

 

The controller's speech rate was not too fast nor was it hard to understand.  The LH crew certainly wasn't having any problems.  At no time was the crew confused in any phase of flight and I saw nothing out of the ordinary.  What I did see was excellent CRM. 

 

The controller did add an extra "to" in the speed restriction, but that is very minor.  The crew understood and read back the speed restriction.  If the crew had been confused they would have verified the speed restriction with ATC. 

 

blaustern

 

Yeah, that's why they asked each other what she said and said "that's a no no" ;-)

 

You see what you want to see. Sorry. And you don't even want to understand what we are refering to it seems.

You know that this ain't a personal thing, right? We are just trying to figure out what was going wrong and caused the confussion in the cockpit.

 

Well, maybe you learn German for 2 years and then I shout some instructions at you, as fast as a human can possibly do it... let's see if you are confused then in a situation with a sh*tload of stress :-) I would bet you are.

I thought it was fairly obvious -- as soon as they spoke to the Seattle Approach controller they immediately commented on the insane pace at which the controller was speaking. Then when they were instructed to "reducespeedtooneninezero" the FO clearly didn't initially comprehend the instruction, though the Captain fortunately realised and explained (and, again, commented on the atrocious, confusing phraseology). Then there was a handover, which they read back -- fortunately they didn't change over immediately because the controller who had just handed them off then gave them another heading to fly and they clearly weren't expecting that either.

 

Obviously the LH pilots had a very good standard of spoken English -- even so there were a couple of times where the rate of speech and non-ICAO phraseology left them at least close to confusion, though it never got as far as that. Replace the Captain, for instance, with someone with just a slightly lower standard of spoken English and you could imagine how it might have taken a fair few seconds of time and discussion to work out what that speed instruction was, for instance.

 

If the sectors are so busy that the only way to work the traffic is to speak at that ridiculous pace then the system is at fault. What happened to "speak slowly and clearly, maintaining an even rate of speech of not more than 100 words per minute"?

 

 

 

Exactly!

And this is only one small example caught on video.

 

1) A B777 established in a full HDG SEL bank to the left takes a little while to reverse direction -- it's not a fighter!

 

Exactly my thoughts when I saw it.

Turning right from a 360 heading to a 180 heading and then immediately left to 270 and then agein "southbound" takes some time in the 777. He also requested high speed departure, which means the Boeing is even less manoeuverable. But then again I have no idea if the timeframes in the video are right or if something is cropped out.

 

But I think they will see what was going on in the cockpit pretty good in the data.

 

I would not blame here any one to start with. In the end the good thing is that nothing happened.

[BlueStar 323]

Yeah, that's why they asked each other what she said and said "that's a no no" ;-)

 

You see what you want to see. Sorry. And you don't even want to understand what we are refering to it seems.

You know that this ain't a personal thing, right? We are just trying to figure out what was going wrong and caused the confussion in the cockpit.

 

Well, maybe you learn German for 2 years and then I shout some instructions at you, as fast as a human can possibly do it... let's see if you are confused then in a situation with a sh*tload of stress :-) I would bet you are.

 

Are you a commercial pilot and do you fly international?

 

I see this video from a different perspective.  I know what stress in the cockpit is and I can assure you there was no stress or confusion in the cockpit. 

 

As for the German question, I would reply in German.        

 

blaustern

[HighBypass 2,339]

As for the German question, I would reply in German.        

 

blaustern

 

 

Touché. 1-0 to Herr Brucken! Sorry, despite the serious debate, this made me chuckle!

[Matthew Kane 1,343]

How many Germans does it take to change a light bulb???  ONE, Because Germans are efficient when at work.

 

 

I also didn't see any problem in the flight deck either, he just made the comment she was a fast talker but they managed fine

[swiesma 625]

Like I said. You guys see what you want to see. We have another opinion. Simple.

 

And because the LH FO did understand so well he said "what?!"

Did you guys even watch this video?

 

I understand that you are sooooo experienced. Pardon me unworthy peasant. :rolleyes: