don't bite the hand that feeds you....

[Guest william273]

without going into a long drawn out discussion from me but i can if i need to, we need to think twice before bashing microsofts flight simulators, all versions. stand back and take a good hard look first. could the problems or difficulties possibly be us instead of fs9? fs9 is MORE than just an addon aircraft. way back when there was only 4 areas in the flight world, new england, s. calif., seattle and miami i think. you couldn't fly between any of them or from one to the other. only in one of those areas and that was it. at the time it was top of the line. we've got the whole world now and a few airports too along with a good many aircraft and other things. i guess microsoft could have perfected everything but then we'd still be waiting for the first version to come out because someone might notice there's a blade of grass way over in the corner of that airfield that's pointing in a different direction than the rest of the grass! let me cut to the chase right here, i've seen some VERY well to do developers/publishers get out of the whole flightsim business because the public was to demanding. while they strove to give everyone what they wanted it eventually took it's toll and they said NO MORE. quit the business. what would we do if microsoft did that? do you have ANY idea what must be involved in making fs9? any idea at all? show alittle gratitude, huh? this isn't pointed at anyone, just something i've wanted to say for a long time. william

[John_Cillis 2,406]

Although I sometimes question the bona fides of those making negative posts regarding the MSFS product or certain add-ons, at least in the case of MSFS I'm not worried about how discussion here influences the product's future. I believe the positive and negative comments (the legit ones, that is) help the product.But the product is written for a much larger, more casual audience that exists outside of these forums that I know it will endure on. Unless some bottom feeder politician or media baron tries to make MSFS a sacrificial lamb (such as the 9/11 "terrorist" connection) for a vote or a sound byte, and Microsoft gets swayed by that.However, the add-on community is at risk. Many freeware authors, myself included, have given up because of the loose lips sinking our ships. My last release has 3000 plus downloads. I received two emails of thanks, a few kind words in the forum, and some nasty words in a forum I don't even participate in which questioned why I would release something that a "serious" pilot shouldn't use. That's not enough ROI for my work to make it worthwhile, although I'll keep writing add-ons or building simple aircraft projects to suit myself.Even payware providers I am sure reach the point where they decide it ain't worth it. Most of 'em aren't in it for a living.But for the core, the foundation, I think it's what said outside of these forums, by politicians and rather clueless reporters, that risks it the most if Microsoft hires some PR Director that is equally clueless and/or their stockholders share that trait. Publicly traded firms are political organizations--which is why I don't work for one :)-John

[Guest]

The Microsoft development team may well decide they've had enough with the constant bashing, screamed demands, and other abuse from the hardcore users (or more correctly from a small but very vocal minority of them, maybe a few hundred at most worldwide doing the damage to the entire industry) and stop working to please us all.Personally I'm surprised they didn't reach that point before development of FS2004 was far enough underway that they couldn't stop it.At that point they may well decide to loose us completely by removing the things about the sim we like best: the capability to add stuff to it, the possibility to modify just about anything, and they could decide to lock it down tight so the base product becomes static.Then dumb it down some so the punters can more easily land that 747 and you have the perfect sim for the masses.Maybe add some phantasy aircraft for laughs, like Crimson Skies.Those steps would drive the complainers away from the product line, would reduce development and support cost enormously, and may well increase total sales.All seem to me very valid business reasons to take the step, what has prevented it so far is that many in de MSFS team are in fact not unlike us and enjoy the product as it stands as well as the challenge to make it better, more open.

[Sonar5 3]

You mean like closing it and putting it on Xbox.What we really need is another Major developer with a product to compete.I remember immersing myself in ProPilot99 while taking my training to get my private.Then Fly! II, and then MSFS2002 Pro, and now MSFSCOF.Some owned the Flight Unlimited Series, and still others xplane.Not sure how xplane is doing as I have not owned it, but if they did stop making the MSFS series, someone else would hopefully come along, create a new engine, and run with it.It is a proven Market, and except for their pricing mishap with MSFS2002 Standard and Pro, I believe it was due to competition that we have come so far in such a short amount of time.Regards,Joe

[Guest Michael]

Hi gents; I'd like to pick up on an excellent point that John made, that is to say, which market MS targets for the core flightsim programme. There are various 'types' of simmers; those who are satisfied with the core platform and are casual users, those like myself, who have some payware and a lot of freeware enhancements such as scenery etc..., and the hard core simmer who has taken the time to develop their own addons, and are participating in a virtual airlne , and /or have become software developers(payware and freeware). I beleive what I'm geting at is that if ther are more Gamers than simmers out there, then FS is still a viable product. (But really, if you are viewing this forum,you probably don't use this product 'out of the box'.)However, if MS considers the market is too specific, then they'll be looking at a different maketing strategy.But hey, whatever... I own FSCOF, but I still fly mainly in FS2002and beleive it or not, I still have FS98 and all its addons installed. Flight simulation will endure. Cheers -michael

[Guest gasebah]

MS will continue it as long as it is either good business or they feel it is important to position themselves in that spot of the software market. I find the thought ridiculous that MS might be founding their business decision on the complaints or cheers of the "small but vocal monority" of these or other forums.On the other hand realism is what drives even the casual user. It is the imagination to be able to do what the real pilots do that drives also the less experienced simmer. What one believes is realistic is varyying by a wide range however.Regarding the add-ons I am not sure. But I tend to believe (wishful thinking?) that the amount of programs available in the after market that directly relate to MSFS is a very welcome advertisement for MS and also an important part of their business strategy. And don't think that it is a small minority buying add-ons. When I go to large consumer electronics stores in my city each of them has a whole shelf of FS-add-ons. Believe me they don't have it there for a small minority. They only stock stuff that sells. Some like to make us believe that the add-ons are made for a few hundred people that should be grateful that they can buy them, but with world wide distribution a lot of them (add-ons) sell in very high numbers.Alex

[RogerPotie 0]

I do not understand how some people "enjoy" ctritezising MSFS and independant developers. Some opinion on freeware and payware is necessary to make a choice but I also do not see why some comments must be so crude.I had my share of problems when starting with MFSF but with the help of people in this forum and search and trials from my part I now have a stable and very satisfactory product with a dozen adds-on (freeware and payware).Let us fly and enjoy life.Roger

[Guest Ronson2k]

One of the things I think is in the responce. If you say something nice or critical you still need a responce to atleast be egnoledeged as giving your opinion. If you however give an opinion and are ignored then people take offence at that. There could be many reasons for not being egnoledged but it's foolish to think that if you say nothing that only good things can come of that. I've written to quite a few builders of aircraft and got no return. I chalk it up to them having more important things to do. This perhaps also makes large companies seem to impersonal to even egnoledge others that use there products. Especially for something as complex as MSFS. How many repairs have been made to MSFS from the user community. I bet you can't even count them. I'm not talking about addons I mean repairs. Has microsoft egnoledged the tremendous help that it has because people simply love there flight sim enough to make it "As real as it gets". I'm not one to bash MS for there product and I can remember the early days when MSFS was in 4 colors. Egnoledgement is where it's at. Without it people will simply not talk or worse say things they don't want to be egnoledged for...No doubt about it...Ronson2k

[Guest Kingair315]

>The Microsoft development team may well decide they've had>enough with the constant bashing, screamed demands, and other>abuse from the hardcore users (or more correctly from a small>but very vocal minority of them, maybe a few hundred at most>worldwide doing the damage to the entire industry) and stop>working to please us all. Personally, I dont believe it is the "hardcore" users who are abusive, but the "twits" or "Trolls" who just try to lead others on. They want "attention" and if you do not give it to them, they just go elsewere. Most developers are intelligent enough to know that, and when they consider the source, it can make them feel pretty good..... The only really good software companies "making money" that Ive seen give it up, were those who found something else more profitable. BUT, those who have been doing it for the pleasure, instead of profit, have been driven away by the trash talk of a few. Bob

[kerosene31 349]

Constructive criticism is fine, but the MS bashing has got to stop. If I see one more "As real as it gets" thread, I am going to scream. If this hobby makes you that upset, go find something else to do with your spare time. This hobby is supposed to be fun and relaxing. I am tired of coming here and hearing how horrible the sim is.

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

And with that, another thread bites the dust. No closed.