New PMDG 737NGX Pilot

[OneWhoKnocks53 51]

 

 

 
https://www.amazon.c...s/dp/1453860819
 
Beyond simply 'what to click on', that book is a mine of useful information on 'why' you click on that particular button, so it goes beyond merely what to do, and all pilots should know why they are doing what they are doing. More than this however, it is quite possibly the nicest tutorial book you will ever read, with a really friendly and likeable writing style, written by a a guy who was a US Navy aviator on the Grumman S2 and an airline pilot for United Airlines for decades. Should be on every serious simmer's bookshelf for sure.

 

Mike Ray's books are amazing, in addition to the general 700 series book he does a 737NG specific syllabus.  I cant recommend these books enough. 

 

http://www.utem.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=34

[Holdit 551]

On an impulse, I bought the NGX last night, and took it for a spin over London (Orbx UK) to see how it performed on my new system (smooth as silk) and made a cack-handed but non-fatal landing at Heathrow (does she generally like to float or is that just me?). Then I reloaded without Orbx (just Global) and headed east, just to see how it hand-flies...more responsive than I expected. Then I headed south over the channel and dialled in the Dieppe VOR...oops no DME, so switched to Abbeville instead and on to Paris CDG, where I was totally misaligned and aimed for another runway instead, but didn't get down or slow quick enough overshot it. Oops.

 

I never went near the FMC, just dialed in the frequency and adjusted the course knob for the track to the VOR. I could't find an equivalent of autopilot NAV mode. I thought LNAV might have done it but I guess that just works with the FMC. I got where I wanted to go by just using Heading Select to track the correct course. Of course, I'll do the tutorials before tackling anything more complex.

 

Very nice, smooth performance, terrific VC. I love the way changes to equipment layout are implemented instantly before your eyes. Great product, worth every penny. It's made me re-think my entire hangar and the path I'll take before I think I'm really ready to fly it properly. All I need to complete my collection now is a decent King Air with steam gauges given the (close-to) PMDG/Majestic/FSLabs treatment.  :smile:

[Nick Dobda 24]

 

 

does she generally like to float or is that just me?

 

Not sure what plane your coming from (I came from the default 737) and I thought it floated alot too until I realized I was just flaring too hard - pilot error due to being used to the default plane, you'll get used to it.

 

I never went near the FMC

 

ind an equivalent of autopilot NAV mode

Again, if you came from the default 737, the autopilot in the NGX will not make sense. It does a whole lot more then the default A/P - and LNAV does a whole lot more then anything the default A/P does. 

The tutorials will clear most of it up, but to get everything the plane has to offer will require a commitment.

 

[Chock 17,769]

does she generally like to float or is that just me?  :smile:

 

The NG does indeed like to float, it is a function of several features of the aircraft. Unless you are talking about a 737-600 (which is more or less the same length as an older 737-200 variant), NGs land much faster and therefore typically 'flatter' than the older versions, most especially the 900/900ER, where there is considerable risk of a tail strike if over-flared, it having an extra tail skid for just that reason. Approach speeds on 737NGs are around about 20 knots above VREF, but it is known that even at reasonably high landing weights, a 737NG can still be generating enough lift to keep flying (especially when in ground effect) when traveling as slow as 90 knots, so if you're coming in hot, and even if you are not, then you will almost certainly land long in an NG, as you're likely to be doing at least a good thirty-five knots higher than that speed on short finals.

 

For example, at Schiphol in 2008, Turkish Airlines Flight 1952,a 737-800, bellied in short of the runway as a result of its autothrottle closing to idle on approach owing to an altimeter failure, which led the autopilot to calculate the aircraft it was just about to touch down when it was still over 500 feet above the ground (autothrottle closure should actually occur when the aircraft is at 27 feet above the runway). It was written off (breaking into three pieces and shedding both engines in the hard landing on the grass) but even so, most people on board survived the impact (although there were quite a lot of serious injuries and several fatalities), but even so, it is remarkable considering that at one point on the approach the aircraft was only traveling at 83 knots (when it should theoretically have been doing 144 knots to remain on the glideslope). This just goes to show you how slow the NG can go and still not completely fall out of the sky.

[Orlaam 306]

In sim at least, the NGX likes to float if you aren't used to it.  I have to be honest, once you get some time and practice, you learn that you almost don't need to "flare" per se.  What I mean by that is that most add ons I've had for FS2002, FS9, and FSX aren't developed much differently (exception is the NGX and MJC Dash-8).  You have to idle and pull back, sometimes quite a bit to flare and settle at Vref.  They've almost all rested onto the runway with little effort.  I've only had a couple that ballooned terribly during flare.  It was almost unrealistic IMO.

 

Anyhow, the NGX, properly configured on glide-path will have some nose up attitude, despite not looking that way from the flight deck.  You idle the thrust at 30' AGL and slowly level out your descent until you put her down.  I no longer float and feel that the NGX actually is the easiest to land.  To go even further, there are times when your level off to touchdown actually forces you to apply forward pressure to get her down.  If you watch pilots landing, forward and back pressure is applied during the "flare/landing" phase. 

 

I realize it's tricky, and lots of people struggle to not float, but the main reason for that is as follows - sim "pilots" are way too hung up on greasing the landing and touching down at -25 fpm.  That's just unrealistic and silly.  The majority of flights are touching down at -200 fpm give or take.  I actually irritates me to see this greasing crap online.  You have to get down within a TDZ and companies don't really allow you to float along without some retort based on SOP.

[SirBismuth 9]

I agree re. the floating of the NGX, noticed that on more than one occasion that I actually hardly need to flare.  The ERJ did need a more positive flare, much more than the NGX.  I was still scared of planting the aircraft in the runway nosewheel first, which would not be a pretty sight.

 

Douglas Ulyate

[Chock 17,769]

True, in fact when I was first learning to fly in real life, I used to grease it on every time, and initially my instructor was impressed that I could do that, until one day when I got a bit target fixated on the ground and flared too late, causing a pretty hard landing which although causing no damage, did have us walking around the aeroplane afterward to check I hadn't bent anything, fortunately I had not, since training aeroplanes are built with that kind of thing in mind. After that experience, I stopped greasing it in and instead used the less flashy but ultimately more sensible way to land. 

 

Incidentally, if you ever see a 747 pilot who's not used to flying small GA aeroplanes come in for a landing in one of them, stand by for a good laugh when you see them flaring that little aeroplane when still 75 feet in the air. I used to know a 747 skipper who did that all the time lol.

 

Most airlines prefer to have their pilots plant the aircraft down fairly solid as far as I'm aware, since there is less wear caused on the tires when you do that. If you try to gently kiss it down, the tires skid more before picking up speed and that causes wear. Airliner tires cost many thousands of pounds and in some cases can last as little as thirty landings if abused in that way, whereas if treated well, airliner tires have been known to last for as many as five hundred landings, so you can understand why airlines would advocate planting that bird down properly, otherwise, one dodgy landing could basically blow the profit for that entire flight. Oddly enough, many airlines don't actually own the tires on their aeroplanes, they essentially lease them off companies, because when the tread wears down, they are sent back and retreaded, and this can be done quite a few times before the thing is useless, which is just as well for a tire that can cost 20 grand. Something to consider, even in your simulated flights, if you are into doing it 'properly'.

[swiesma 625]

Another question here:

Compared to the PMDG 777, how would you rate the 737 in terms of details and overall impression?

 

I really love the 777 but I am 50:50 to buy the 737, with FS2Crew this would be another 100€....

[SirBismuth 9]

Never flown the 777, so can't compare, but am sure that you will be impressed with the 737.

 

When flying for real, I don't mind if the pilots put it down a bit hard, known WHY they are usually doing that (tyre wear considerations etc.).  For the less-informed, they prefer the "greased landing".  Heck, isn't there a cliché along the lines of "any landing you can walk away for a pilot is a good landing."

 

Douglas Ulyate

[Chock 17,769]

Another question here:

Compared to the PMDG 777, how would you rate the 737 in terms of details and overall impression?

 

I really love the 777 but I am 50:50 to buy the 737, with FS2Crew this would be another 100€....

 

 

The PMDG 737 is without doubt one of the best FS add-ons you can get, and a dream come true for any 737 fan. If you even remotely like the B737 then it's a no brainer to get the PMDG 737NG.

 

There are some nice 737 add-ons out there for FS, and some of them even come fairly close to the PMDG NG (i.e. the iFly 737 is a good and comprehensive package for the money). There are many decent 100 and 200 series 737 FS add-ons, and there is soon to be a decent 3/4/500 series add-on from QW to replace the aging Wilco ones, which are showing their aged origins a bit nowadays. But if you want ultimate realism, the PMDG 737 is at the top the tree. The only other short/medium haul FS add-on which can justifiably hold a candle to it, is the FSL A320.

[Nick Dobda 24]

 

 

I don't mind if the pilots put it down a bit hard,

Coming back from Vegas once (passenger obviously) on Southwest, moderate rain and wind coming into KMSP, the ground came up quickly and there was zero flare, just a BANG and hard braking... my wife looks at me and goes holy crap what happened? I told her it was a perfect landing (based on conversations read on here about hard landings). 

[downscc 1,327]

Another question here:

Compared to the PMDG 777, how would you rate the 737 in terms of details and overall impression?

 

I really love the 777 but I am 50:50 to buy the 737, with FS2Crew this would be another 100€....

I really love the 777 too, but the NGX is my favorite for several reasons. First, it is fun to fly. Leave the A/P off below 10,000 and hand fly everything.  Second, less automation and more pilot/airplane interaction, which for me results in more immersion into the simulation.  Finally, these birds fly everywhere.  I made a round the world trip in a B736 in BBJ livery that took a week and was lots of fun; longest leg was 5 hr and saw a lot of world.  There's scheduled service between West Coast and Hawaiian Islands, and even between New York and Copenhagen (during the season) or you can fly lots of short hops in one day a' la SWA. 

[SirBismuth 9]

I really love the 777 too, but the NGX is my favorite for several reasons. First, it is fun to fly. Leave the A/P off below 10,000 and hand fly everything.  Second, less automation and more pilot/airplane interaction, which for me results in more immersion into the simulation.  Finally, these birds fly everywhere.  I made a round the world trip in a B736 in BBJ livery that took a week and was lots of fun; longest leg was 5 hr and saw a lot of world.  There's scheduled service between West Coast and Hawaiian Islands, and even between New York and Copenhagen (during the season) or you can fly lots of short hops in one day a' la SWA. 

 

I plan on just that, taking the NGX around the world as well, but in a local airline's livery!  Am just flying it local (the aforementioned airline's routes) at the moment to familiarize myself with the aircraft, its' performance and systems. then will depart on the world tour.  Don't plan on making the legs longer than 2-3hrs, 5 at most.  On my last world tour with the ERJ, I chose my next destination on a whim, downloaded any scenery and traffic for that airport (owe Avsim a ton for that), do the relevant flight planning, and off I go.  Never forgot landing in Auckland, I think it was, came in a bit hot so used the entire runway, took me at least 30 mins. to taxi to my parking, as there was so much Air New Zealand traffic.

 

Douglas Ulyate

[swiesma 625]

I did it...

Bought the 737 + Expansion + FS2Crew.

 

The learing curve is ok coming from the 777.

Had a short intense flight yesterday from EDDM to EHAM, with holding and VATSIM ATC the whole way.

 

It was really a lot of work. Busy airspace and a plane I am not used to. But was it fun? Hell yeah :-)

[Mephic 129]

I bought lot of aircrafts for this sim but NGX is the one I fly the most. Good for short and long flights, able to land on really short runways (LGSK - pure fun!) and also doing real world long hauls (e.g. Poland to Kenia with short stop in Egypt to refuel while flying Enter Air is awesome). You can fly it ETOPS, you can fly it on domestic routes, it's just really flexible. I didn't repurchase -600, -700 package for P3D (only had it in FSX) as I fly 800 mostly anyway.

 

When it comes to smooth landings I started with 500 FPM (so nowhere near smooth) but now 80% of them is below 200 FPM and yesterday I also did 140 which was (to me) a great success with Saitek Yoke which is known for not-so-easy pitch management.

 

The two tips I can give you for manual landing are:

 

1. Disconnect the autopilot much earlier than on minimums (I do it when I have runway in sight and sometimes even at 10k to practice, especially if there is a need to fly traffic pattern). The reason is simple - you'll get use to controls after flight on auto-pilot and won't make sudden moves when on final.

 

If you find yourself doing overaggressive moves on NGX causing instability, that means you need to go back to Cessna (preferably A2A) as this one is also very tricky for pitch management when landing with flaps 30 but allows you to practice with slower speed.

 

2. Start disconnecting throttles on 50 and by 30 have them completely off. I'm not sure if the real thing is not somewhere around 20, but I found 30 to work best here. I start the flare (very delicate) at around 25 feet but if I see I'm going to do long landing, I release and land it firmly. Prefer pax to feel little butt-pain than end up in sea or buildings.

 

EXTRA TIP: as long as you're not in IFR conditions, look out of the window. Easier said than done as we have tendency to check glidepath indicator and make sure we're on track, but really it's easier when you look where you go. (much easier with TrackIR though)