What ever happened to customer support?

[Guest jaapverduijn]

There's also Lago's statement about "all houses":"(...) The FIRST city scenery done completely in 3D, no more flat 2D textures on the ground. ALL HOUSES ARE DONE IN 3D (...)"Now, please, what other conclusion can one draw from the above quote than that the stuff is indeed in 3D? Jaap Verduijn.

[bob.bernstein 0]

is it houses that were made in 2d?B

[Guest jaapverduijn]

As far as I remember it's just about every building that's in 2D. Compare it with the MSFS runway lights, that swim all over the place when looked at through 3D glasses or red/blue glasses. The Lago add-on behaves like those lights ("swimming") which, as far as has been explained to me, happens with the runway lights because they are 2D, so I guess it happens to the Venice add-on houses and buildings ALSO because they are in 2D.My simple consumers opinion/expectation is that, according to their 3D hype, the Lago buildings should behave like the flightsim BUILDINGS (3D) and not like the flightsim RUNWAY LIGHTS (2D).I am quite suspicious about "secret codes" (grin!) that do not mean what they say, but that developers can use to put their clients down. Like what Lago calls "3D": apparently they interpret the term in another way than I as a consumer do. It's very easy to pull the wool over the eyes of the stupid likes of me. When some developer calls their stuff "3D" I am naive enough to believe that they ARE 3D and hence work with 3D glasses which, after all, are specifically MADE to see depth in 3D. Anyway, Lago made its position very clear: they "make add-ons for MSFS, not for any hardware" you or I might have. And quite probably their "expert interpretation" of the term 3D is quite different from my "consumer interpretation". So let them, as I said before, shove their add-on up their little donkey. Preferably with a BIG cardboard box around it.Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[bob.bernstein 0]

Jaap, I guess its about live and learn...unfortunate for sure.Best,Bob

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Oh, I will survive, don't worry (grin)!Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest IanP]

I could say the same... :-hahI'm not defending Lago's statements, by the way, because I don't know what they have or haven't said. By the sound of it, they haven't delivered what they say they have but, not owning the scenery product or the hardware being commented on, I am not qualified to comment on that.All I am defending is their not providing support on, what is really quite specialist, hardware that they don't make. My statement that it would cause fps to plummet was exactly that - a statement. I've spent enough time trying to nurse extra frames per second out of sub-standard PCs to be most definately qualified on *that* count!!! ;-)Serious comment, though, is that if eDimensional don't have a list of add-ons suitable or unsuitable to use with their hardware, you might like to suggest they start one? :-)Cheers,Ian P.

[Guest jaapverduijn]

Greetings Ian!Basically eDimensional glasses (for page-flipping 3D) and red/blue glasses (for anaglyph 3D) work with any add-on that is truly 3D. In fact using these glasses turns out to be a pretty good means to check whether a developer's claims of "everything is in 3D" are true or false!I fully trust you when you say that having an add-on like Venice work with true 3D all over the place would play havoc with framerates, and that won't be much fun - no disagreement there. My main issues then are that Lago's advertising is misleading, and that their attitude to a custimer who complains about that, is kind of "cavalier". "(...) I've spent enough time trying to nurse extra frames per second out of sub-standard PCs to be most definately qualified on *that* count!!! (...)"Me too, Ian, me too! I seem to always be somewhat behind when it comes to processors and video cards... possibly because I spend my money on stuff like eDimensional glasses (grin)!Be well!Jaap Verduijn.

[Guest 320MAD]

Hey gang,Sheez now I find a topic I can relate to. I know what you are feeling. I have purchased products not from lago but in general (you know a plane comes out and you just gotta get it). I too am starting to wonder if support exists. I don't know how some of these companies do business. Here are a few of the expierences I feel we all share:1. You purchase their product install it and something doesn't work... Ok nobody's perfect it's to be expected. You report the problem, are promised a patch because you and another 1,000 people have reported the same bug and poof! NOTHING HAPPENS!2. You purchase their product and it all works fine. MS releases a patch for FS2004 and it stops working. You ask for support and get a mail that this product was not intended for the new patch just for the old one (when you purchased the product 24 hrs before the patch came out, or even after the patch came out).3. The company develops a product and makes a killing. You send them an e-mail thanking the company for their great work and state you have some suggestions for upgrades (valid ones not things like errr... my landing gear won't come down cause you didn't tell me where the g key was on the keyboard), e.g. improvments to their model or VC a gauge that could be improved. They mail you a reply stating the product is 4 years old and they have no plans to update it.With reference to point 3 above god how stupid can these people be! Pilots are buying their product in bundles even 4 years after it was developed don't you think they will pay you again if you re-develop it for the new version of FS? I wish the developers out there would take heed of our messages as they seem to think that they are doing us a favour by developing the aircraft for us (true in a way cause I for one don't have the skill to develop an aircraft from scratch), not that we are earning them money by paying for their product. YES I agree the support for some products is bad if not non existant but our cries seem to be falling on deaf ears. One thing that would get these companies going is if Microsoft steped up one notch on the aircraft they were developing. Could you emagine how some of these vendors would feel if they (MS) would develop a product like the A320PIC that actually worked properly along side a few others of the same standard e.g. FMC's, good models etc. and released them with FS2006? I feel it would get them thinking.Just my 10c320Mad

[Guest]

1) if true, inexcusable. But mostly it's not "thousands of people" but only a very few who scream very loudly and tell everyone that there's "thousands of people" having trouble even before there's a thousand units told.2) never heard that. Only thing I have seen (and that's completely logical) is companies saying you're not going to get an upgrade to the next version of FS. Nothing wrong with that, if you've not been in the industry you don't know the cost of creating such an upgrade.3) completely bogus argument on your part I'm afraid. Every time a company tells they'll create a new product but you will have to pay for it again, existing users included, there's a storm of protest from self-righteous users who think they've a right to eternal free upgrades. They're actually expecting to get a completely new product for free because they bought something 4 years ago.

[mnmon 0]

Careful. There's an unwritten rule here that does not allow one to criticize payware developer's products and/or business practices. Apparently, when one makes money from the flight sim market, one is held to a different set of standards than the rest of the business world, especially that "they seem to think that they are doing us a favour by developing the aircraft for us (true in a way cause I for one don't have the skill to develop an aircraft from scratch), not that we are earning them money by paying for their product." Note the one response already. I'm sure more will follow. In my continuing quest for freeware that outperforms payware: Try the new Project Fokker regional jet, which is a much better package than a payware regional jet I have. Mike

[bob.bernstein 0]

you know darn well what folks took you to task for....failure to be specific.And the guy above is doing the same thing.You think the payware industry would embrace a general smear due to some bad apples?C'mon, use your head.Bob

[Guest]

Your only quest seems to be to blackmouth the entire commercial arm of the addon industry for FS...

[Guest 320MAD]

I don't think some of your responces to my post are fair. Have you been bitten by one of the developers of addons? Been told that the $35 you just spent have been flushed and there is nothing you can do about it? I have been bitten more than once and I have only found 1 company out there that seems up to the task I won't mention it cause I don't want to be accused of propping products. Failed and un supported products... Huh take a look at most of the commercial forums here! I'm not talking about your simmer who has no clue how to install a product or cant find a key, more than a few of us have been simming for the better part of 10 years or more and are not like the "but my gear goes up to slow" or "I didn't read the manual so I don't know how to use the FMC" (you know what I mean by this type of user). I personaly have been bitten! Have you? If so my friend then speak up.I'm not trying to say the whole fs addon developer world is bad, just that some companies don't open their eyes to what is going on. At the risk of being black-listed from this forum if not the site I will name 1 WILCO - I spent good money on their A320 - it looks good from the inside VC, caben but it flys like a heap and there is NO SUPPORT at all! Look at their forum for god's sake. I sent them tonnes of mail and never got a reply! This was just one example. Look at the ones just above and you will have many examples read the posts... Things don't work like they were supposed to FMC's, flight models etc. "1) if true, inexcusable. But mostly it's not "thousands of people" but only a very few who scream very loudly and tell everyone that there's "thousands of people" having trouble even before there's a thousand units told."There is one forum on the site where a particular fix that I have asked for and have been refused (I was told I was the only one) has been requested by no less than 35 users directly and another 70 over the past year."3) completely bogus argument on your part I'm afraid. Every time a company tells they'll create a new product but you will have to pay for it again, existing users included, there's a storm of protest from self-righteous users who think they've a right to eternal free upgrades. They're actually expecting to get a completely new product for free because they bought something 4 years ago."You say that people won't pay for another product that is re-developed. I don't know about this one. If people are asking for you to put the features in they must have the common sense to realise that it won't be for free. I develop software for a living and most of our clients pay us for the upgrades... What you are saying is not true in another sense, MS developed FS2004 right so what do we all expect to get 2006 for free? My argument here is that it's still simulator right so why pay for it:I enjoyed this little rant and no hard feelings mate I have had some bad expierences that's all and I appriciate your comments.Cheers and thanks for the comments320Mad

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

"There's an unwritten rule here that does not allow one to criticize payware developer's products and/or business practices."What exactly does that mean?

[mnmon 0]

Tom, it means I was royally taken to task for complaining about what I perceived as a lack of quality of most of the payware planes I have purchased. Ok, since 320Mad took the public lead. Here's one of my "been bitten" cases: The WILCO CRJ: Just touching the FMC will cause a loss of communication with ATC. Any tuning of the radio through the FMC will also cause the fault. This has been confirmed by another user over on Wilco's own forum linked off their page. The only way to keep this from happening is to tune via the FS ~ key. The plane also is virtually impossible to land without the autopilot. Disengaging the AP too soon( like at 500 ft!) and trying to hand fly the rest of the way induces a fairly severe swaying motion from side to side with very little rudder or aileron input. The reason I mentioned the new Project Fokker, is that its flight model is very stable compared to the WILCO. And the Wilco CRJ compared to PMDG.... well...there just isn't any way to compare the quality. As I sent Bob and JW the rest of details in private messages, I'll let them say whether my other two planes I've bought do, or do not have problems. Mike