A request to developers(especially FS2Crew and GSX)

[ieydis 51]

But, this is why I'm saying, make it an OPTION.  So a user such as myself can turn it off everywhere.  By default, you can ship the way it is - with buses all over the place.  But, for those like me that use a lot of 3rd party scenery that apparently have no way for you to detect there's a jetway, let me shut it off everywhere with the flip of a switch or check of a checkbox.  That way both sides are covered.  And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

I'll second this motion for a "full-off" option.  Just something to consider for the future.   :wink:

 

Ilya

[virtuali 4,421]

But, this is why I'm saying, make it an OPTION.  So a user such as myself can turn it off everywhere.  By default, you can ship the way it is - with buses all over the place.  But, for those like me that use a lot of 3rd party scenery that apparently have no way for you to detect there's a jetway, let me shut it off everywhere with the flip of a switch or check of a checkbox.  That way both sides are covered.  And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

Of course it would have been an option, but my point was, like in case of the Verbosity slider that I took as an example, users will touch it, and they FORGET it's even there, so they return back to us, asking why GSX is "not working". This is what is happening and has happened, not something I think it might.

 

A *global* option that could potentially give the wrong impression there's a problem with the whole program, everywhere, just to adapt to some 3rd party scenery which still insist doing fake jetways, it's wrong. It's those scenery that are out of standard, they are the exception, not the rule, so the exceptions must be dealt individually, not the other way around.

 

 

 

And on the 1 out of 100 airports that I park at that is not at a gate, I can then customize that one airport to bring the bus for that spot.

 

So it's not just one option. You want both the "global" option AND an individual customization for each parking in order to IGNORE IT ? How much confusing you want it to become ? A Global option to reverse the normal GSX behavior, which is already correct for a proper scenery that respect the standard, and individual options to re-reverse it ?

 

Doesn't make any sense, since the most obvious solution is already there: simply flag the parking spots that have jetways, and that's it. No global option, and no risk of any confusion.

[klamal 282]

 

 

So it's not just one option. You want both the "global" option AND an individual customization for each parking in order to IGNORE IT ? How much confusing you want it to become ? A Global option to reverse the normal GSX behavior, which is already correct for a proper scenery that respect the standard, and individual options to re-reverse it ?

Sorry, no, this is not what I'm saying.  I'm simply saying that for me and others like me, if we could have a setting to globally disable the bus by default, then we'd only have to do an individual customization for those rare parking spot that we park in that would need a bus to be sent.

 

So, it's not confusing.  It's basically just an opposite approach to what's being done now.  Right now, you are sticking to the "standard" argument.  If that's where you want to stand, so be it.  That's your choice and we have to live with it.  It's unfortunate though given that a lot of us do use 3rd party that, whether right or wrong, don't follow the standard.  So the end user ultimately suffers.

 

Anyway, I just think it would be a nice option.  I'm sorry maybe I'm not explaining it clear enough.  And, I'm sorry that maybe this is something you won't even consider.  Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we'll have other options(FS2Crew's UGCX) and maybe they will make things more flexible.  Though, I can't remember if they are really doing a pax boarding simulation in their product.  So, we might be stuck with GSX in the end anyway.

[pete_auau 1,158]

 

 

Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we'll have other options(FS2Crew's UGCX) and maybe they will make things more flexible. Though, I can't remember if they are really doing a pax boarding simulation in their product. So, we might be stuck with GSX in the end anyway.

 

they are only  doing the push  back etc  nothing  to do with  boarding  buses  etc, loading  cargo etc

[virtuali 4,421]

Sorry, no, this is not what I'm saying.  I'm simply saying that for me and others like me, if we could have a setting to globally disable the bus by default, then we'd only have to do an individual customization for those rare parking spot that we park in that would need a bus to be sent.

 

So yes, it was exactly what you were saying.

 

So, it's not confusing.  It's basically just an opposite approach to what's being done now.

 

My point, exactly, you want to have the program reasoning backwards to what it should, by favoring the exceptions against the standard.

 

Right now, you are sticking to the "standard" argument.

 

That's because there IS a standard, which is already followed by all 20.000 default airports, and by a lot of 3rd part developers.

 

You might have had some kind of point, years ago, when nobody except us weirdos at FSDT, made addon sceneries with proper animated jetways. But today, both because GSX popularity and because there's also SODE as an alternative, there's isn't any reason to sell payware airports with fake/static jetways, as if it was 1999...sceneries from UK2000, FlyTampa, Flightbeam, Taxi2Gate now come with animated jetways.

 

Regardless if they use the standard SDK method, or SODE, we got them covered in GSX.

 

And, we like to believe that both GSX and the fact that we made animated jetways since FSX was released had a bit of an effect in this change of policy by many 3rd party developers so, by sticking to the standard, we put some weight to increase the quality of all available product out there.

 

 

It's unfortunate though given that a lot of us do use 3rd party that, whether right or wrong, don't follow the standard.  So the end user ultimately suffers.

 

Then you should simply lobby those developers still selling airports with static jetways to stop doing that, because it's them who are causing the problem in the first place.

 

You would expect a payware scenery should offer *at least* what the default scenery has, in terms of feature. A scenery it's not just nice textures, and by making static jetways, they are selling a payware product which is downgrading the default scenery, feature-wise.

 

If you, as an user of their product, cannot convince those developers to do so (they might say is too much work, that jetways are a performance cost, etc. ), you might suggest an easy alternative:

 

- Provide a GSX customization file with jetways flagged themselves, like many airplane developers are doing these days. While you said, as an user, it's too much of a pain to do this for each airport that needs this, it surely cannot be much of an effort for the scenery developer himself to make it for the airport they are selling!  It's enough to place the GSX .INI file together with the other .BGLs in the main scenery folder, and GSX will read it, so it's a minutes effort to made it, and a zero effort to add it to the installer.

[tf51d 284]

 

 

You might have had some kind of point, years ago, when nobody except us weirdos at FSDT, made addon sceneries with proper animated jetways. But today, both because GSX popularity and because there's also SODE as an alternative, there's isn't any reason to sell payware airports with fake/static jetways, as if it was 1999...sceneries from UK2000, FlyTampa, Flightbeam, Taxi2Gate now come with animated jetways.

 

I think the argument is more with parking spaces/gates that have no jetway. While in Europe it's common for aircraft to be parked on the apron away from the terminal, where a bus would be needed. In the US smaller airports do not all have jetways, but the planes park close to the terminal negating the need for a bus. I actually like FSDT's approach to this, The one thing that would be nice though, is the ability to set customization at both origin and destination airports in the beginning of the flight rather than have to do it for the destination after arrival. This way the flight would be seamless. As you say though you only have to do this once per airport you want to customize.

[virtuali 4,421]

I think the argument is more with parking spaces/gates that have no jetway.

That's not an issue. If the airport has jetways, and the developer made them either with the official SDK method, or with SODE, GSX can detect both cases, so it can safely assume the rest of the parking spots are in the Apron, needing a Bus and Stairs.

 

While in Europe it's common for aircraft to be parked on the apron away from the terminal, where a bus would be needed. In the US smaller airports do not all have jetways, but the planes park close to the terminal negating the need for a bus.

 

Which is why, GSX always had the option to separately disable the Passenger Bus only, to cover the case of a parking spot without a jetway that doesn't need a Passenger bus, but will still need Passenger Stairs.

 

Are you located in a small rural airport with no jetways where everybody walks to the airplane ? Just select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks.

 

I actually like FSDT's approach to this, The one thing that would be nice though, is the ability to set customization at both origin and destination airports in the beginning of the flight rather than have to do it for the destination after arrival. This way the flight would be seamless. As you say though you only have to do this once per airport you want to customize.

 

Exactly. Since you should do it only once, it's much better if you, before starting your actual flight, would just use the default FSX menu to pay a short visit to the destination airport to customize it.

 

Even if GSX offered you the ability to do that from its user interface, how different would be than just doing it from FSX ?

 

You would still have to select the destination airport from a very long list, just like the one in FSX, then GSX would still have to open the scenery AFCAD, and if you wanted to customize it visually, it would still have to move you there, triggering a scenery loading progress bar. No point of replicating exactly the same procedure as in FSX, it's a totally wasted effort.

[klamal 282]

 

 

Are you located in a small rural airport with no jetways where everybody walks to the airplane ? Just select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks.

I realize, like everyone else, this doesn't take a ton of work to do per airport.  And, right, it is great to have this option at least.  But, it still doesn't mean that it would be nice to not have to do it all.

 

But, look, all I'm asking for here is the OPTION...I don't care who's to blame.  I don't care who's following standards or who's not.  The FACT is that some do and some don't.  That is what it is!  I'm not going to change Aerosoft's mind on their approach to designing their airports.  And, I'm also not going to not use those airports because they don't do this either.  Another FACT is that you make a product and I am a customer of that product and I am JUST ASKING for an OPTION!  I'm not trying to get into a holy war over it.  It's not my fault that 3rd party sceneries don't stick to standards.  But, why I am made to feel like a crazy person here for asking for an option?  Is there anyone else reading this that understands what I'm asking and agrees with me?  And would use said function?  Or, am I the only one?

 

I guess I might just have to write something that does this myself.  I know makerwys can get the info for me.  Then, all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses for all gates everywhere - by default.

[tf51d 284]

 

 

That's not an issue. If the airport has jetways, and the developer made them either with the official SDK method, or with SODE, GSX can detect both cases, so it can safely assume the rest of the parking spots are in the Apron, needing a Bus and Stairs.

 

I still don't think you are getting it. We know GSX correctly handles Jetway gates without the bus. The issue is gates that do not have jetways. In Europe these spots are usually a distance away requiring a bus to transport passengers there. Which is the GSX default. In the US though it's more common when a airport doesn't use jetways or don't have enough to handle the aircraft parked there, they still park close to the terminal, where the passengers walk right on the plane from the terminal. No bus needed. A good example of this is KHPN. There are only 2 jetways there. The other airliners still park in walking distance of the terminal so there is no bus. Like I said, like you I don't think a global option is the answer. It would be nice though if there was a way to do the customization without having to load up that airport in FSX/P3D. That's a nice to have though, maybe something to think about for future products.    

[virtuali 4,421]

I realize, like everyone else, this doesn't take a ton of work to do per airport.

That's your "ton of work":

 

- Select the whole airport, and disable the Passenger bus for all parking spots at once. Two clicks. Only done ONCE, for the first time you go to that airport.

 

I guess I might just have to write something that does this myself.  I know makerwys can get the info for me.  Then, all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses for all gates everywhere - by default.

 

Now I'm not following you anymore.

 

First you say it's a "ton of work" to select all parkings with fake jetways (or all parkings that shouldn't have Passenger bus), now you say that "all I'd have to do is create the GSX ini files configured without pax buses" ???

 

But that's precisely what the GSX configuration page does, when you select all parkings at once, and change something ( 2 clicks, or 3 if you want to set the Bus and the Jetways at the same time ): it creates GSX.INI file with ALL parking configured as you like!

[klamal 282]

 

 

But that's precisely what the GSX configuration page does, when you select all parkings at once, and change something ( 2 clicks, or 3 if you want to set the Bus and the Jetways at the same time ): it creates GSX.INI file with ALL parking configured as you like!

I get it! I get it! I get it! I know that I can go into each airport and do this for each airport in "2 clicks, or 3" via the GSX configuration page.  I know!  I get it!  So, for me, I have like 75 payware airports that I use.  Yes, I get it!  I can go to each one, one at a time.  And, one at a time, do the "2 clicks, or 3" to turn this off for all positions at the airport.  So, in this instance, I can "2 clicks, or 3" multiplied by 75 and accomplish what I'm trying to do.  So, 150-225 clicks for me to disable at all my third party airports.  Right, not a "ton of work".  I get it!  It's what I do now.

 

What I can't fathom though is how I am so unable to say this in a way that makes sense to anyone else but me apparently?  For me, having the option in GSX to just check a checkbox that says "Disable passenger buses globally" or whatever, would be a very nice OPTION to have.  Then, it is a ONE time thing for me to go into GSX and click it and I'm done!  1 click(or 2 or 3 if you want to count navigating the add on menus).  I can't see how that can't be a nice option!?!?  Apparently my english is not that good(and I'm American!!).

 

I'm sorry to have blown this this far out of proportion.  It's really, at the end of the day, not that big of a deal.  If it was something that was easy for you to do, I think it would be nice.  If not, fine.  So be it.  I still overall would rather have your product, even with its deficiencies, over nothing at all.

[virtuali 4,421]

We know GSX correctly handles Jetway gates without the bus. The issue is gates that do not have jetways. In Europe these spots are usually a distance away requiring a bus to transport passengers there. Which is the GSX default. In the US though it's more common when a airport doesn't use jetways or don't have enough to handle the aircraft parked there, they still park close to the terminal, where the passengers walk right on the plane from the terminal. No bus needed.

 

This case was address by my previous reply, which I'll repeat here:

 

GSX always had the option to separately disable the Passenger Bus only, to cover the case of a parking spot without a jetway that doesn't need a Passenger bus, but will still need Passenger Stairs.

 

I think I'll have to explain all the issues, again:

 

- A Parking spot can be either on an Apron, or a Gate. If it's an Apron, it will SURELY need the Stairs, but it MIGHT not need the Passenger Bus.

 

- If there's a FSX or a SODE jetway, we can be SURE we won't need neither the Stairs nor the Bus.

 

- If there's no Jetway, it might be an Apron, but it might also be a gate with a fake/jetway.  

 

We cannot even rely on the Parking Type (which is ALSO configurable in GSX), to know if it's an Apron, because there are even more developers that set the Parking Type in unpredictable ways compared to how many developers do static jetways so, the presence of a jetway is a bit more reliable to understand if a parking is on a Gate or on the Apron.

 

- Even if the parking it's on the Apron, there's no way to know if it's FAR from the gate to require a Passenger Bus or not, but it will STILL need the Stairs.

 

That's why we NEED the jetway flag, but that one, alone, is not enough (if it's missing), to be used as a sure way to get rid of the Passenger bus, but not the stairs.

 

Which is why, the Passenger Bus and the Jetway can be enabled or disabled in the GSX parking customization SEPARATELY.

 

 

Like I said, like you I don't think a global option is the answer.

 

Now you agree with me, at least.

 

My point was just that Global options are very dangerous, because it's very easy to get confused by them, and it's wrong to have a global option, just to cover exceptions for products that don't follow a standard.

 

It would be nice though if there was a way to do the customization without having to load up that airport in FSX/P3D.

 

What do you mean. Using some kind of external editor ? I thought that being able to customize an airport without having to exit from the sim, would be a good feature, not an issue. Not sure how exiting from the sim, using an external editor, then entering in the sim again, would be any better than just moving there with the user interface you already have (the default "Go To Airport" command), customize it, then returning where you were before, all without exiting the sim.

[virtuali 4,421]

For me, having the option in GSX to just check a checkbox that says "Disable passenger buses globally" or whatever, would be a very nice OPTION to have.

It won't work.

 

Disabling the Passenger Bus globally, might be useful only if most of your airports have parking spots on the Aprons close to the terminals, where passengers just walk. But you will still need Stairs there!

 

It's the presence of a Jetway that affects the usage of Front/Middle Stairs ( the Rear one can be also configured separately) and if there's no way to recognize Jetways, because an airport is using static/fake ones, GSX will think it might an Apron and will call all Stairs, even the front/mid ones that shouldn't, that's why you need to configure it to set a jetway.

 

If you also had a Global option to disable the Stairs, they won't appear even when you NEED them, which is everywhere else outside a terminal because, regardless how close a parking is to it, Stairs will always needed.

[tf51d 284]

What do you mean. Using some kind of external editor ? I thought that being able to customize an airport without having to exit from the sim, would be a good feature, not an issue. Not sure how exiting from the sim, using an external editor, then entering in the sim again, would be any better than just moving there with the user interface you already have (the default "Go To Airport" command), customize it, then returning where you were before, all without exiting the sim.

 

An external option would be one way to go. The problem with moving around to another airport in the same session, is FSX/P3D degradation of VAS each time you load new scenery, and if you wait until you reach your destination, then that breaks up the flow of the flight. It's only a onetime thing though (Per airport you want to customize) , which is why I said it's a nice to have feature not a necessity.

[virtuali 4,421]

It's only a onetime thing though, which is why I said it's a nice to have feature not a necessity.

 

Exactly, since you must do it only once, you might decide, as an habit, to dedicate the first session of an airport after the installation, to configure it for GSX.