FSX-MS Can you TO and land the Dash 8 w/ auto-rudder?

[Noel 4,487]

Hello,

 

Just picked up the Dash 8, it's awesome, I already love it, but taking off is near to impossible to keep the beast on the runway w/ its limited aileron steering once over I think it's 40 knots.  I was advised you must make sure the Dash 8 is perfectly aligned before advancing the power levers to RATING, but of course w/ x-winds it's really problematic IF you can't steer using ailerons w/ auto rudder enabled.  I think the documentation says you can get up to 8 degrees of front wheel turn BEFORE you get past 40 knots, then it's acting like steering goes down to nil and that is no like any other plane I've used over the past 20 years including all of the PMDG stuff and everything else.  I did discover the .ini file to change the prop effect to zero so that's helped for sure, but again once rolling past 40 knots there is clearly virtually no steering capability using the ailerons, not even 8 degrees, which is actually ample if you could access it past 40 knots.

 

Any other ideas for me besides buying/using manual rudders, which is absolutely off the table for me?  I know auto rudder is not authentic--but authentic is not important to me.   Or, if you're also using auto rudder, what tips do you have for me?  I see there is an aileron trim toggle, however that is located in a bad spot to use during TO.

 

Thanks!

[Flying Penguin 44]

Given it only happens when you exceed a certain speed, I believe what is happening is you are only able to stay straight up to ~40 knots as that is the point up to which the nose wheel steering is operative, in the real aircraft this is not coupled with the rudder, but with the tiller.

 

You can confirm this by watching the tiller on the left hand side of the cockpit and the rudder pedals, below 40 knots the tiller will move with the aileron input, above that speed it will stay centred, and in fact you are probably not getting any rudder input at all.

 

Given the Dash is a fairly hands (and feet) on aircraft, auto rudder is unlikely to be sufficient.  As I said in the other thread, trim will help, but realistically you might need to use buttons for rudder, perhaps the hat switch, if your stick has no twist function.

A bit more digging and it appears that Auto Rudder only applies to the tiller, hence the 40 knot change in handling.

[Noel 4,487]

You can confirm this by watching the tiller on the left hand side of the cockpit and the rudder pedals, below 40 knots the tiller will move with the aileron input, above that speed it will stay centred, and in fact you are probably not getting any rudder input at all.

 

Yes I noticed this, the stay centered part.  When you say, 'in fact you are probably not getting any rudder input at all', are you referring to auto rudder only, or any rudder input including manual?  If this plane can't be flown using auto rudder Majestic really should give this as an option in the Control panel.  This makes this plane one of a kind in a sea of maybe 100's of FSX/P3D planes, and because of this it should be stated clearly up front.

 

I wonder if if auto rudder can be overridden by manual rudder inputs, do we know w/ P3D?  I'll try it.  That would be fine so I can assign rudder inputs to a toggle and use it as needed only.

 

ADDENDUM:  OK, this has been discussed ad infinitum by several users just like yours truly.  It sounds like it's a case of work arounds if you don't have dedicated pedals for the Dash 8, so off we go to see if we can make peace with this, and while I'm at it hopefully Majestic Software still exists in the flesh as I will be making a case for the many users who also find this unnecessary, that is, to leave out the option of allowing user control via the Control panel to allow auto rudder to impact nose wheel steering for those who prefer this deviation from authenticity.   The die hards exist for authenticity but I don't ;o)

[Flying Penguin 44]

You should still get response manual inputs, just not an automatic one via the aileron.  As as I remember, the Pilot version just uses standard input, so you would follow your preferred config option (assign through FSUIPC or the main settings dialog), so assigning a toggle or button as you would do if flying with keyboard would work just fine.  If at that point you are still getting no response, a support ticket is in order.

 

As an aside, did you set AUTO_RUDDER_FACTOR =1.0 in Prepar3D v3\SimObjects\Airplanes\mjc8q400\ini\mjc84.ini ?  I just spotted a couple of references on the Majestic forum which indicate that it might be useful in these situations.

[Noel 4,487]

Haha, that is exactly what I just found on my own by looking at the .ini file, and indeed, it's cured the issue.  Now the plane steers like every other plane, thankfully.   That should be plastered where all can see--unfortunately I don't have access yet to the forum, but I see in their FAQ there is no mention of this, and yet there are ample posts by frustrated users who end up adding pedals just for this plane.  I know, it's authentic, and next time I decide to pursue real flying, I'll then think about adding rudder pedals, but never to fly one of a hundred planes.   Once I'm on the forum I will politely suggest they add a configuration radial button to enable auto rudder for this plane--for God's sake!  Nope, but for the sake of the MANY users who don't know this hidden secret, at least relatively hidden secret.  I never saw the reference that you found, but thankfully it's there and wasn't hard-coded out of the Dash 8.

 

Thanks

[ckyliu 1,749]

You don't have to go to the expense of pedals, you could just use a twist joystick. But anyway, as you've discovered the autorudder setting in FSX/P3D is ineffective and you have to set it in the MJC84.ini An alternative fix is to disable yaw due to propwash in the ini.

 

As per reality, the rudder is coupled to the nosewheel but only allows +/-8 degrees deflection. More steering angle requires use of the tiller, which by default is coupled to the aileron axis in the Majestic until 40 kts. Ultimately to keep it straight during takeoff you need rudder input from somewhere (be it automatic or manual).

 

One thing that hasn't been mentioned here, you can add one needle with of right rudder trim (approx 15 units) before takeoff and it's a lot less fighty!

[Noel 4,487]

An alternative fix is to disable yaw due to propwash in the ini.

 

No sir, you're dead wrong on that.  They are two completely different parameters so it's not an 'alternative'--you can disable yaw due to PW and still you will not be able to steer the beast at ground speeds over 40, it's only when you stop mjc84.ini's killing of the sim's built in auto rudder that you can steer the Dash 8 while at speeds over 40 knots.   But anyway, thanks!

[ckyliu 1,749]

Well it wouldn't allow you make rudder input (indirectly) but it would greatly reduce the tendency to veer off

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

The Dash 8 is really designed to be flown with Rudder input.  As a work around, you should be be able to assign Keys (such as Arrow Keys) as rudder input, but what I'd recommend is the purchase on an inexpensive joystick with a twist rudder axis on the joystick. There are several available for about $20.

 

Best wishes.

[overspeed3 410]

I bought the Majestic Dash Q400 Pro when it was first came out.  I was very excited to fly this bird with all the bells & whistles.  However, it turned out to be a beast to both take-off in, and to land, esp. with any kind of crosswind... Got very frustrated after a time. So basically it's been in my hanger for many months.

 

Instead, got the PMDG's 200/300's and devoted my time to learning their systems & quirks... (An easy bird to fly)

 

Right now, have cash in hand, awaiting the new Queen of the Skies...  

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

 

 

I bought the Majestic Dash Q400 Pro when it was first came out.

 

Flying a turbo prop is far different than jet aircraft. It handles so differently, and those used to flying a jet aircraft will struggle a bit until they learn the nuances of flying a turbo prop. Now, on top of this, the Dash is going to behave like an actual aircraft (and turbo prop at that) and this will be little surprising to those used to jets or users of other turbo props. This was achieved by the use of an external flight model which has many more parameters than what FSX/P3D has available.

 

If you'd prefer, you can turn the External Flight Model off via the control panel, and the aircraft should be easier to fly.

 

My very best wishes!

[Noel 4,487]

 

 

Flying a turbo prop is far different than jet aircraft. It handles so differently, and those used to flying a jet aircraft will struggle a bit until they learn the nuances of flying a turbo prop. Now, on top of this, the Dash is going to behave like an actual aircraft (and turbo prop at that) and this will be little surprising to those used to jets or users of other turbo props.

 

That it be.  What's remarkable to me is how intolerant the Dash 8 is to pilot error, and it is not very easy to get it back once you've lost control.  The autopilot is kind of a misnomer, it's really a semi-autopilot!   So far I'm managing TO, climb and cruise just dandy, but in weather as I'm preparing my approach it's been pretty tricky for me.  That being said, man do I like it, and love it's low impact performance.

[overspeed3 410]

So, DaveCT2003:

 

How do you turn-off the " External Flight Model" for the Dash 8?   Can't seem to find it with a Google search...

 

Thanks

[ckyliu 1,749]

Well you can't disable it a such but as discussed above you can easily add lines to the mjc84.ini to disable propwash yaw, enable auto rudder and even adjust turbulence. So it can be made much simpler/easier although ultimately you will still have to adjust your flying style to suit, e.g. keeping power on in the flare.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

As I recall, it can be disabled in the control panel, you'll find it as FDE (Flight Dynamics Engine) Sync. Just change it to the other setting.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way, but this and a lot of other valuable information that you'll find helpful in setting up and flying the Dash can be found in the documentation that came with the software. I mention this because the Dash is a complex addon which requires a bit of knowledge in order to be able to enjoy flying the aircraft - as it's a full study level aircraft. I offer this strictly to help you enjoy this truly amazing aircraft model. Along with the Leonardo Maddog, it's the Gold Standard for flight sim models.

 

I'm not sure if I posted it here or not, but I made a minimum of 3 flights per week in this aircraft for six years and thoroughly enjoyed each and every flight, and never once got bored. I knoq many others who feel the same way, and hope you will as well.

 

best wishes to everyone.