FSX-MS Can you TO and land the Dash 8 w/ auto-rudder?

[Noel 4,499]

It goes w/o saying how good the authenticity is it would appear even to someone who can hardly appreciate authenticity, but to get this kind of near zero impact on frame performance is something I remained shocked isn't emulated by other developers, especially PMDG.  There must be some proprietary secrets involved.  This Dash 8 seems ultimately more complex than the NGX is, and yet the NGX is a total performance hog by comparison.  And graphically, it's superior to the cockpit graphics in the NGX.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

 

 

This Dash 8 seems ultimately more complex than the NGX is

 

I thought so when I first started flying the Dash, but after a while i released it's just different, and less automated - which I love!  I fly the Dash, Maddog or the CRJ-700/900 when I'm in the mood to be more hands on, and the Aerosoft A320 when I'm in the mood for a relaxing flight (I'd add the NGX or 777 for a relaxing flight, but I stopped flying them about 2 years ago).

 

 

 

and yet the NGX is a total performance hog by comparison. And graphically, it's superior to the cockpit graphics in the NGX.

 

Absolutely, truly a masterpiece... a true Gold Standard for flight sim aircraft.

[Noel 4,499]

I thought so when I first started flying the Dash, but after a while i released it's just different, and less automated - which I love!  I fly the Dash, Maddog or the CRJ-700/900 when I'm in the mood to be more hands on, and the Aerosoft A320 when I'm in the mood for a relaxing flight (I'd add the NGX or 777 for a relaxing flight, but I stopped flying them about 2 years ago).

 

 

 

 

Absolutely, truly a masterpiece... a true Gold Standard for flight sim aircraft.

 

Hey Dave, if you will please.  I've read quite a bit on the Dash 8 including some tutorials, so I have enough of the basics understood now.  I'm using the built-in SIDS and STARS, not that I understand what the abbreviation even means...!...but I have managed to control the plane nicely now, having understood what kills the auto-pilot (getting close/at stall speed), and doing well retaining as I say good control.  About 30 minutes ago I did a completely controlled flight (my FSCaptain passengers didn't know what a dufus was at this plane) until the last 30 seconds  whereupon I tried my best to emulate the suggested 'maintain the pitch right on thru touchdown' but I think my scanning got less than perfect and for those critical last seconds lost it again, landed on the apron, etc.  So just a few questions if you will...

 

1.  When winds are reasonably tame, when do you turn off the autopilot?  On this flight I turned off the autopilot about  10nm's out from the runway.  I kept great control until the moment of truth.  I sense it will be long before I have it down, I hope.  So again, when does the autopilot typically get turned off during an ILS landing, and for an LNAV approach landing w/o a glideslope indicator?

 

2.  I downloaded and used Little Navmap--geez, i'll be sending in a donation.  It's amazing!   My question is:  I think the navaids that LNmap reads as you import P3D data is not the same as the data in the Dash 8 as I don't see all of the STARS/SIDS or whatever they are that I used coming into KCIC today.  I guessed which one might be the one to Direct To south of KCIC for a landing on 31R.   So how does one get the same data from the Dash 8 into LNmap, or is that not possible?

 

3.  Any other tips for landing besides being ultra committed to scanning rapidly and continuously, then keeping power inputs as subtle but effective as possible?

 

Thanks!

[Flying Penguin 44]

1.  When winds are reasonably tame, when do you turn off the autopilot?  On this flight I turned off the autopilot about  10nm's out from the runway.  I kept great control until the moment of truth.  I sense it will be long before I have it down, I hope.  So again, when does the autopilot typically get turned off during an ILS landing, and for an LNAV approach landing w/o a glideslope indicator?

 

If the vis is good, hand fly from as far away as you feel like, 1-2 miles is a good comfortable ballpark, more if you feel sporty.  

 

For instrument approaches, you can reasonably leave it in until your decision height.  If you are flying to CAT I ILS minima,  you can reasonably leave it in until the CAT I minimum decision height of 200ft above the ground, at which point it's AP off then pretty much straight into the flare.  For the LNAV approach the decision height would be higher and approach specific (specified on the charts), but 6-800ft would be a good ballpark figure.

 

2.  I downloaded and used Little Navmap--geez, i'll be sending in a donation.  It's amazing!   My question is:  I think the navaids that LNmap reads as you import P3D data is not the same as the data in the Dash 8 as I don't see all of the STARS/SIDS or whatever they are that I used coming into KCIC today.  I guessed which one might be the one to Direct To south of KCIC for a landing on 31R.   So how does one get the same data from the Dash 8 into LNmap, or is that not possible?

 

You can bring LNmap up to date by purchasing an up to date AIRAC from Navigraph and subscribing to fsAeroData.  The Navigraph cycle will update your Dash, and is the input to fsAeroData to update the sim and LNmap.  You only need one cycle as once they are in synch you needn't update them unless you fly online.  I don't believe there is a way to get them in synch otherwise as they can't read each other's formats.

 

3.  Any other tips for landing besides being ultra committed to scanning rapidly and continuously, then keeping power inputs as subtle but effective as possible?

 

Here's a document written for the Majestic forums by a RW Dash captain that is 27 slides of just pure landing advice:

 

http://majesticsoftware.com/mjc8q400/resources/LandingTheQ400.pdf

 

 Bit of light reading 

[ckyliu 1,749]

I tend to establish on the glideslope, gear down and then AP off. There's not really any hard and fast rules, a lot is pilot discretion, although as Jamie detailed above there are points where legally you must be hand flying. If it's a visual approach I generally go manual during the turn to line-up or earlier.

 

As for the final bit of landing/touchdown the key point is DO NOT CHOP THE POWER, you must keep power on during the flare because of the amount of air the props push over the wings. This is the opposite of what you'd do in most aircraft.

[Noel 4,499]

Awesome thanks for those tips Chris they are really clear.  To paraphrase what everyone is saying, the Dash 8, because of its narrow envelope demands you know much more detail about staying on point all the way thru.  With my failed landing today I had absolutely no idea what glide slope I needed to be on and that is because w/ planes that are easier to fly you can correct for less than optimal behaviors.  So now I need to learn more about how to decide what the correct GS is for specific approaches and landings.   Maybe I need a less in charts as well?  I have no idea how to 'read' a chart!

[Noel 4,499]

Cool!  Success!  I realized I wasn't looking ahead and executing early enough so had some pretty good success all the way around tonight.  Pretty fun!  Thanks All!

 

 

I do have this weird issue w/ HDR turning off when I go to external view, then when return into the VC now HDR remains off, but I hit the the button again that brings up the VC and now I have HDR on again.  It's annoying!   

 

Plus I get random failure to load the default flight panel state and other times it works fine.  Seems like I actually have to load the flight THEN can select a different flight plan, which is unique amongst my planes to the Dash 8.

 

Here's what it looks like when I toggle from spot view which is w/ HDR off, back to VC view and you can see HDR is still off.  Hit the button assigned to bring up the VC again, and HDR comes back on!  Any ideas?  I did install the latest nVidia driver but to no avail:

 

 

Now hit VC button again:

 

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

There are already some good replies, so I won't take up time or space - just a few things to add.

 

1. Real world, it depends on many things, some in addition to weather conditions / type of approach. One of these is the amount of traffic in the area. The more traffic, the sooner/longer you might use the Autopilot - for accuracy sake.  For making a visual approach, it's really the pilots call and the more stick time the better!  For approach considerations you can check the charts for helpful info on this. For up to date, free charts in the U.S. I use AirNav (alternatively SkyVector), in Europe I use EADs.  Sounds like you've reached the level where taking a look at charts would be very helpful. There are also some great websites that provide info on how to read the charts.

 

2. I've downloaded, but not installed LittleNavMap. But I have spoken with the developer and read up on this software and I'm absolutely IMPRESSED!  Since I haven't had the opportunity to use this software, I'll point you to the developer for an answer to your question. He's the best source anyway!

 

3.  Absolutely!  Unless you've loaded the Dash down, try using Flaps 15 and crossing the threshold at 135 knots.  It will change your controlled crashes in a very positive way. It didn't take long for me to start putting her down nice and soft under those conditions.

 

 

I'm extremely pleased that you're enjoying the Dash 8!  It's one of those aircraft where the more you fly her, the more you love her!  Also, it sounds like you've been in the Dash 8 documentation - but don't tell anyone, they'll think you nuts!  LOL!  Oh, consider that inexpensive joystick with the twist rudder - $19 and it will change your flight sim experience!

 

Keep up the great work.

 

My very best wishes to you.

[Noel 4,499]

Why thank you for the well wishes--back at you!  Don't tell anyone, but I am nuts!  Actually, we're all a little nuts to have this hobby--just ask my wife ;o)

 

I really like the yoke so will just leave what I learned works to re-enable auto rudder.  I actually have a joystick on eBay for sale--a CH Flighterstick Pro USB that I opened and essentially never used years ago.   I guess maybe if I had an Airbus in the hanger I might reconsider but for the moment I'm ok w/ the auto rudder w/ yoke.

[Noel 4,499]

This is probably the wrong place for this but I'll post it anyway.

 

Flying P, I followed your guidance on getting AIRAC data synced in P3D, the Dash 8, and Little Navmap.  What I can't figure out is how to decide what SID to choose in the FMS in the Dash 8.  I'm not seeing these on Little Navmap.  Do I need 'charts' as well?  I was hoping LNmap might solve this but it doesn't look like it will perhaps.

 

Anyone, how does one know which SID or STAR to choose?  That's a pretty basic question I know but I'm stumped!

 

Thanks all!

 

Man i'm enjoying the Dash 8!   The HDR issue which is actually not a terrible thing won't be fixed unless I upgrade P3D to something 3.3 or later I think, so it's cool I'll live with it as P3D runs flawlessly for me now and I value that more than risking problems w/ different versions.  I had another perfect score in FSCaptain and that included, for reasons I don't understanding, losing the glideslope coming into KSBA.  For some reason it just lost it, but I was able to manually land just right, very smooth.  One more quick question:  I notice if I stay just above the stall speed coming in the pitch of the aircraft seem much more nose down than I experience in landing the PMDG airliners.  I understand the role of flap extension in this, but is it expected to have an attitude that is barely above level prior to your flare?

[Maarten Otto 18]

I always disabled Yaw due to PropWash and that has always done the trick on my system until I got rudders. 

[ThomasAH 61]

What I can't figure out is how to decide what SID to choose in the FMS in the Dash 8.  I'm not seeing these on Little Navmap.  Do I need 'charts' as well?  I was hoping LNmap might solve this but it doesn't look like it will perhaps.

 

Anyone, how does one know which SID or STAR to choose?  That's a pretty basic question I know but I'm stumped!

Little Navmap does not yet support them, but some other programs can help selecting them, e.g. AivlaSoft EFB or PFPX (just to name two, I'm sure there are others).

The easiest way to see the correct SID or STAR is via charts. Which airports do you want to depart from and fly to?

If you have the charts for your airports, you can see e.g. which SIDs are available for the runway you start from. They will usually lead to different waypoints, so select the one which suits the direction you want to fly. Some SIDs have additional restrictions, e.g. for day vs. night, aircraft type, altitude, etc.

Same with STARs.

[Noel 4,499]

Thank you very much for that reply.   I might look at one chart and try it out and see if it's worth going that deep.  I do have not that many airports I use regularly so maybe that's the best idea.  

[ThomasAH 61]

I suggest starting with SIDs only, they are easier, and you can setup everything while on the ground, even if the wind changes.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

I suggest starting with SIDs only, they are easier, and you can setup everything while on the ground, even if the wind changes.

 

Except in Europe!  LOL