A.T.S MD82 released!

[richie894 45]

Take your time and fix the bugs. I saw some VOD's from that same streamer earlier this week. He tends to be very negative and seems to have whole bunch of issues with his setup. In one stream the 747, 757 and A330 all caused his sim to CTD. I wouldn't put much weight on his opinion.

[alfamike 67]

Thank you @alfamike for responding.

 

I did look at one stream earlier in this day. There was quite much rant going on. I do not take any stand on this. But what I did see was some severe bugs which do need to be corrected. The other problems I did see, I do not want to judge, as there needs to be a more qualified person to answer these. As this addon is stated to be a study-aircraft, the current issues I did see where severe. I do understand some bugs may have slipped by, for everyone it does, but some bugs I do not understand why they did appear at all?

 

I do really hope, and I know it will sooner be, that bugs and faults will be corrected. I still have hope for you and this aircraft.

 

To sum up I think this airplane was released too early, and not tested correctly enough. Even though three experienced real pilots of this aircraft have tested it, it is important to note that they may not be "real" sim-pilots experienced with computers, they may be blinded. We sim-pilots do destroy the aircrafts and putting them to real testing, while real pilots do may give some input of how the systems and aircraft behaves (they are not as interested and observant).

 

I really have hope for you @alfamike and this aircraft. You have not loosed me as customer as of yet, only the time for me buying your aircraft has been prolonged.

 

Looking forward for the XP11 version, and I wish very best of luck in the future.

Thank you very much Gösta!

I haven't watched that (or those) stream so I can't give an opinion, as far as I know later today there was another stream where the simmer started with XP11 (bad thing) then he changed to XP10 and after some hints he understood more and more things and then he enjoyed our plane a lot... I know that bugs are present, but for me it's extremely important to understand what is really a bug and what is 'just' a procedural problem.

Now it's evening here and we're really tired because this day, tomorrow we should re-release the plane and in the meantime I continue to check the code in order to start to fix initial (and real) issues.

Again, thank you very much for your support!

 

 

 

Take your time and fix the bugs. I saw some VOD's from that same streamer earlier this week. He tends to be very negative and seems to have whole bunch of issues with his setup. In one stream the 747, 757 and A330 all caused his sim to CTD. I wouldn't put much weight on his opinion.

 

Thank you Richie!

Problem is that negative 'word of mouth' (I don't know if is the right expression, sorry) runs much more faster than the positive ones, it's difficult to reach and correct all of them.

[ADamiani 470]

Tested on X-Plane 10: I can't even make it move! How does one disenagage parking brakes? 'V' doesn't work

 

Also, while the throttle seems to work better in XP10 than XP11, I am unable to operate the speedbrakes: the lever doesn't move when I change my slider position. 

 

How do I trim it? I have two joystick keys assigned to that, but to no avail: I can only trim it via mouse. Not handy at all.

 

I can accept that there is something the matter with XP11, but I expect the plane to work fine in XP10, and at this time I have some problems.

 

May I suggest a refund offered to all those who bought it today? I am still willing to purchase it and I want to support this effort, but I need something more ....

 

Thanks

 

Andrea

[alfamike 67]

Andrea, as the real MD-80 disengage parking brakes by pressing the toe brakes our plane do the same, in the same way you have to press them when you want to engage them before to pull the knob.

Trim setting: which commands have you assigned to those two joystick keys?

If you have used the standard commands those are not the right ones, you must use our custom commands (we have created two commands to manage the long trim handle, two to manage the switches on the C/M-1 yoke and two to manage the switches on the C/M-2 yoke), the list is in the documentation.

About the speed brakes lever, was the axis assigned to speed brakes before to load the plane or do you have assigned it right after?

[ADamiani 470]

I know hhow to disengage pb in the MD, I succeded in XP11, but was unable to find the right command in XP10.

 

Trim up - down are assigned to the standard commands. 

 

The speed brake lever was already assigned to the joystick "throttle" and working with other aircraft like the IXEG. Anyway I relaunched X-Plane 10 twice before givin up.

 

I really think you should have a look at the throttle sync and speedbrake sync problem in XP11: I don't think Laminar Research are going to change anything there, and, even if your MD80 is not advertised for XP11, just consider what is going to happen if it is unusable: I, for instance, will delete it from my sim and use other planes that work quite well in XP11 instead. I am sure you have worked hard on this model and deserve your reward, but it still requires a little effort imho ...

 

Also, I wouldn't care too much about VNAV and FMS stuff: the real joy of flying the Mad Dog is IAS and VOR to VOR (or FIX to FIX), so I will already be happy when I can fly this bird in XP11 the way they (and I, in the simulator) did in the 80's.

 

 

Andrea

[MarioDonick 752]

 

 

even if your MD80 is not advertised for XP11, just consider what is going to happen if it is unusable: I, for instance, will delete it from my sim and use other planes that work quite well in XP11 instead. I am sure you have worked hard on this model and deserve your reward, but it still requires a little effort imho ...

 

Well, actually Laminar Research repeatedly stated that developers should NOT put any effort in X-Plane 11 compatibility at this moment, because it is likely that these efforts are wasted when XP11 changes again during the beta.

[ADamiani 470]

Well Mario as I wrote, there are a lot of things that can quietly wait for a release version: eye candy, FMS, VNAV ... 

 

I feel that fixing that throttle and speedbrake sync issue and the IAS mode would be more than enough while we wait ...

 

Andrea

[MarioDonick 752]

 

 

I feel that fixing that throttle and speedbrake sync issue and the IAS mode would be more than enough while we wait ...

 

It's not important if these are just some "small" issues or a lot of "big" issues. There should be no addon development or "optimization" for X-Plane 11 at his moment. Period.

 

Why? Well, imagine ATS fix these things. Then comes X-Plane 11 beta 9 or maybe 10, or RC 1, and their fixes are broken again. They have to fix it again. And maybe again.

 

This is inefficent and a waste of resources that are better spent in fixing the open issues of the aircraft in X-Plane 10.

 

If one buys a product with the expectation that it should run in X-Plane 11, it's their own risk.

[ADamiani 470]

Mario, I am just stating the obvious: if the product is not flyable in XP11 at least in a reasonable way, even with some features missing (more or less what is written on the product page), then I am going to delete it. And many people are not going to buy it. A real pity, because there is potential in this airplane.

 

If you are trying to convince me that developers should NOT try and fix some basic features just to make it flyable, please don't waste your time. 

 

I would also suggest to change the product page into something like "At this time, this product does NOT work in XP11. Maybe sometimes in the future it will, but not today." Don't you agree? Unless, of course, there are ways to make it work "reasonably" well, which brings us back to square 1.

 

Also, let me be frank and say that a statement like "If one buys a product with the expectation that it should run in X-Plane 11, it's their own risk." is not kind toward a customer. If this is your concept of customer care, I will make sure that I never buy anything from you. If I misread something, please clarify.

 

Take Care and Good Night (it's late here)

 

Andrea

[signmanbob 592]

Mario, I am just stating the obvious: if the product is not flyable in XP11 at least in a reasonable way, even with some features missing (more or less what is written on the product page), then I am going to delete it. And many people are not going to buy it. A real pity, because there is potential in this airplane.

 

If you are trying to convince me that developers should NOT try and fix some basic features just to make it flyable, please don't waste your time. 

 

I would also suggest to change the product page into something like "At this time, this product does NOT work in XP11. Maybe sometimes in the future it will, but not today." Don't you agree? Unless, of course, there are ways to make it work "reasonably" well, which brings us back to square 1.

 

Also, let me be frank and say that a statement like "If one buys a product with the expectation that it should run in X-Plane 11, it's their own risk." is not kind toward a customer. If this is your concept of customer care, I will make sure that I never buy anything from you. If I misread something, please clarify.

 

Take Care and Good Night (it's late here)

 

Andrea

 

Quoted from A.T.S. website product page:

"X-Plane version compatibility

Our MD-82 was planned, designed and developed for X-Plane 10 and due the high customization level actually it isn't fully compatible with X-Plane 11 (you can use it but not all functions will work as planned), for which its use with the new version is not officially supported yet.

We'll wait until the first stable version before to make all needed changes, then we'll provide a free update so you will able to use our MD-82 with the newest version.

A specific, dedicated version for X-Plane 11 will follow but no plans right now."

 

(I put the red and boldness to highlight the quote)

 

If you purchased this aircraft because you wanted it for XP11, you made the mistake.  Right now this MD80 is strickly for XP10-64bit, with support, only.  Using it in XP11 is uncharted territory.  May work....may not.

[signmanbob 592]

Hello everyone,

first of all I'm deeply sorry for my lack of posts today but I was (I am) truly shocked due the unplanned release of our plane, we weren't ready for this so I was unable to prompt react, I've no difficult to admit that.

I sent the package to the store yesterday evening in order to short times, given the file size and my not-so-fast connection, planning to 1) check the upload this morning, 2) change our infrastructure configuration from test to release, 3) do latest checks and then 4) send all the activation codes to the store in order to make the plane finally available, so you can well imagine how I was surprised this morning when I noticed that the plane was already sold to some customers.

After all of this we're now facing problems given by people that doesn't know how the plane work and/or using it on XP11, making videos and/or streams, that are given everyone read and/or watch they the worst possible message... in short four years of work are under heavy risk, not a good day at all.

As you have probably noticed right now the store have stopped the sales (not sure it was a good idea, lot of people could think that the plane does have so many problems to require such a intervention) so please give us the time to sort things out and make appropriate communications.

Being a piece of software bugs can be found when the plane is being used by a greater number of people on different situations and, of course, those bugs will be fixed, while it's pretty hard to explain and convince someone that something is not a bug but the result of a wrong procedure.

Please be patient, and sorry for the inconvenience.

 

 

AlfaMike

 

" in short four years of work are under heavy risk,..."     .....No it's not at all.  I wouldn't worry about that, if I were you.  This beautiful MD80 simulation that you have created will completely speak for itself with its quality, and will be in very much demand for many years to come.

Just continue to be consistent and attentive with the updates and support.  Everybody will want to be flying this MD 80 series simulation.

I don't know exactly why, but the MD80 is one of the most fun aircraft to fly.  Maybe because it is just the right balance of automation and manual.

 

Bob

[alfamike 67]

Andrea, as Bob quoted that part of our product page and as Mario explained you the reasons we don't support XP11 right now you should understand why it's impossible to investigate problems with XP11 right now, we have to wait at least the first stable version the we'll can start to work for compatibility.

[ADamiani 470]

Ok, this time I hope I will make myself understood.

 

@FSXtreme: thank'you for higlighting that part: Our MD-82 was planned, designed and developed for X-Plane 10 and due the high customization level actually it isn't fully compatible with X-Plane 11 (you can use it but not all functions will work as planned), for which its use with the new version is not officially supported yet.

 

Now I ask you to read the following sentence instead:

 

"This product does NOT work with X-Plane 11 at this time."

 

Can you spot the tiny differences?

 

Because being unable to control throttle and speedbrakes makes the product "UNUSABLE IN XP11", and not "NOT FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH XP11"

 

I've been in the software industry since 1979, as a developer at first, then an analyst and now I do research. I have the greatest respect for the effort of people who write software and I recognize in this product the greatest dedication and attention to details. I am sure that, eventually, it will come out right; at this time, it feels a bit rushed out, as if (just a hypothesis) development has gone a bit longer than planned (it happenes to me everytime), XP11 comes out, everybody loves it, and you find out that, according to your schedule, you will deliver the finished MD80 in February or March (my guess) FOR XP10, which will be more or less a dead fish by that time. So, rushing what you have (which is not bad by the way) to the market is not an awkward decision: on the contrary, it's quite sensible: you show that you actually have something very good, just needing some finishing touches, it works (more or less) with XP10, which is presently the official version, and FORMALLY everything is ok.

 

Except that at least 3 out of 4 X-Plane advanced users are on XP11 now and not going back to 10, and the product needs some loving care to be useable in XP11.

 

Believe  me, 70 bucks mean nothing to me: I am no poorer today than yesterday. Also, I am confident that ATS will deliver fro XP11. All I am saying is:

 

- either you solve the throttle - speedbrakes problem or you state clearly that the product DOES NOT WORK with XP11

 

- invoking legalese stuff and copying-pasting-highlighting things won't change reality: X-Plane is now version 11: that's what we all use and love, that's what is attracting people from other sims, that's what made me (and many others) delete P3D from my system: XP10 didn't. I can even live with the Warner Bros effect at night. XP11 is that good.

 

- there are competing products that work perfectly (at least nearly perfectly) in XP11

 

So please read this as a suggestion to my italian friends: this is not a rant, I am a fan of this product and I hope it will have a great success.

 

Sincerely

 

Andrea

[Guest Mik75]

Ok, this time I hope I will make myself understood.

 

@FSXtreme: thank'you for higlighting that part: Our MD-82 was planned, designed and developed for X-Plane 10 and due the high customization level actually it isn't fully compatible with X-Plane 11 (you can use it but not all functions will work as planned), [/size]for which its use with the new version is not officially supported yet.

 

Now I ask you to read the following sentence instead:

 

"This product does NOT work with X-Plane 11 at this time."

 

Can you spot the tiny differences?

 

Because being unable to control throttle and speedbrakes makes the product "UNUSABLE IN XP11", and not "NOT FULLY COMPATIBLE WITH XP11"

 

I've been in the software industry since 1979, as a developer at first, then an analyst and now I do research. I have the greatest respect for the effort of people who write software and I recognize in this product the greatest dedication and attention to details. I am sure that, eventually, it will come out right; at this time, it feels a bit rushed out, as if (just a hypothesis) development has gone a bit longer than planned (it happenes to me everytime), XP11 comes out, everybody loves it, and you find out that, according to your schedule, you will deliver the finished MD80 in February or March (my guess) FOR XP10, which will be more or less a dead fish by that time. So, rushing what you have (which is not bad by the way) to the market is not an awkward decision: on the contrary, it's quite sensible: you show that you actually have something very good, just needing some finishing touches, it works (more or less) with XP10, which is presently the official version, and FORMALLY everything is ok.

 

Except that at least 3 out of 4 X-Plane advanced users are on XP11 now and not going back to 10, and the product needs some loving care to be useable in XP11.

 

Believe me, 70 bucks mean nothing to me: I am no poorer today than yesterday. Also, I am confident that ATS will deliver fro XP11. All I am saying is:

 

- either you solve the throttle - speedbrakes problem or you state clearly that the product DOES NOT WORK with XP11

 

- invoking legalese stuff and copying-pasting-highlighting things won't change reality: X-Plane is now version 11: that's what we all use and love, that's what is attracting people from other sims, that's what made me (and many others) delete P3D from my system: XP10 didn't. I can even live with the Warner Bros effect at night. XP11 is that good.

 

- there are competing products that work perfectly (at least nearly perfectly) in XP11

 

So please read this as a suggestion to my italian friends: this is not a rant, I am a fan of this product and I hope it will have a great success.

 

Sincerely

 

Andrea

I don't use XP 11, my main sim is still XP 10.

XP 11 is beta software. That's something many people tend to forget, especially those, who are new to the XP as a sim.

Developers cannot "safely" develop for XP 11 right now, there are still some changes happening with every new PB release.

XP 11 will become the new platform for most people, once it is out of beta. But right now, we aren't there yet.

[Vantskruv 11]

@ADamiani, calm down. Just pretend that this aircraft addon have not been released, and retrieve it when it clearly is stated that it supports XP11. The text clearly states that A.T.S. do not support this aircraft addon when running under XP11, but it is possible to use it without some functions (which is not stated). Just these two sentences rings the warning-bell in my head, and it is obvious problems will occur, whichever grade there are. It is up to you to take the risk.

 

I'm looking forward for a bugfree and fully featured version in a couple of months.