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J van E

First flights with the Rift

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@J van E and others,

 

I was wondering if we VR folks should develop some kind of "vision test" so that we can agree that we have our most clear setup - at least for the instrument panel. This might depend on what we have set for some of the graphics settings, our own vision, and whether we have our eyes in the best relationship to the lenses of the Rift. This might also help us compare things like 4K or even 2K new VR systems. I decided as a possible test is to load the Pitts and see how far back from the rear of the lower wing that you can read the top line of little canopy closing box above the glareshield. I can be about a foot maybe two back in my seat (look left or right at 90 degress to estimate) and still read that top line which says:

Open <<<Latch>>>> Lock

 

Note: Midday sun lighting

 

 

And the second part of my vision test is to start over San Martin (mid California somewhat near the coast - South and East of San Jose) and see how high you can get before the words "South County" that are printed on the center of the runway aren't clear anymore. I made it to 7500 MSL.

 

Note: Early morning sun and Visibility = high - 1

 

and I have an old DK2! Try it and see on your system. Maybe there are better suggestions for the test. 

 

Dave

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Does the Dk2 use an oculus runtime that allows supersampling?

 

Also, have you tried FSX or Xplane with Flyinside? It would be interesting if someone else who has used AF would, because oddly enough, 3D gives me slight vertigo in FSX (Wondering if its FPS related?) and I get nothing like that in AF, so i'm wondering if it might be common or just me.

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I wonder though how you can move your eyepoint...? Seems to me the position is fixed? In most planes the position is quite okay but the Baron has me setting way to far back!
BTW Good info about larger cockpits needing more pixels and hence looking less good. Some VC's look indeed a bit sharper than others. Still, I am an Airbus fan and I really love seeing everything in 3D!!!

With Flyinside you can fix your eyepoint  for any aircraft on a permanent basis. Once fixed it stays there. Look at Flyinsides message board, they explain the whole procedure. I posted my results, perhaps I wasn't clear enough? It is nice to not have to make any adjustments for eyepoint or position every time you fly.

If I remember right you can download the Wiki user manual that also has what you need.

Best

BaldyB

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With Flyinside you can fix your eyepoint for any aircraft on a permanent basis. Once fixed it stays there. Look at Flyinsides message board, they explain the whole procedure. I posted my results, perhaps I wasn't clear enough? It is nice to not have to make any adjustments for eyepoint or position every time you fly.

If I remember right you can download the Wiki user manual that also has what you need.

Best

BaldyB

You made yourself very clear but this is the Aerofly forum and I only fly in Aerofly at the moment and so I don't use Flyinside and hence those great Flyinside options are of no use to me. ;) Would be nice if IPACS added similar functions though!

Also, have you tried FSX or Xplane with Flyinside? It would be interesting if someone else who has used AF would, because oddly enough, 3D gives me slight vertigo in FSX (Wondering if its FPS related?) and I get nothing like that in AF, so i'm wondering if it might be common or just me.

Isn't his simply because Flyinside uses tricks to get fps high enough? Because obviously FSX (or P3D or XP) fps doesn't come near to AFS2 fps.

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Isn't his simply because Flyinside uses tricks to get fps high enough? Because obviously FSX (or P3D or XP) fps doesn't come near to AFS2 fps.

 

Well, that would be the obvious conclusion, which is why I won't automatically trust it without at least a bit of evidence. (I'm weird that way)

 

My instinct says it's probably right, but I don't really get any strong sense of lag while using it, so it seems hard to believe something I can't even consciously perceive might be giving me vertigo.

 

On the other hand, Oculus and HTC pushed the specs for VR to 90Fps for a reason.  :unsure:

 

Again, I wish some other users would pop up to say if they are getting any similar sensations.....

 

Guess I should haunt the flyinside forums, if they have one.......

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Well, that would be the obvious conclusion, which is why I won't automatically trust it without at least a bit of evidence. (I'm weird that way)

 

My instinct says it's probably right, but I don't really get any strong sense of lag while using it, so it seems hard to believe something I can't even consciously perceive might be giving me vertigo.

 

On the other hand, Oculus and HTC pushed the specs for VR to 90Fps for a reason.  :unsure:

 

Again, I wish some other users would pop up to say if they are getting any similar sensations.....

 

Guess I should haunt the flyinside forums, if they have one.......

 

Go to flyinside-fsx.com. You will see Support/ Manual/ Message Board. Also info about Flyinside and Leap Motion Etc.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just thought any info about VR is interesting.

Will no longer post on Airosoft forum!

BaldyB

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Go to flyinside-fsx.com. You will see Support/ Manual/ Message Board. Also info about Flyinside and Leap Motion Etc.

Sorry if I offended anyone, just thought any info about VR is interesting.

Will no longer post on Airosoft forum!

BaldyB

Well now I'm confused.....

 

Did my quoted post (which was directed at J van E) make you think I was offended in some way?

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Sorry if I offended anyone, just thought any info about VR is interesting.
Will no longer post on Airosoft forum!

 

 

 


Did my quoted post (which was directed at J van E) make you think I was offended in some way?

 

Well, BalbyB certainly didn't offend me: maybe he thought I was because I said I don't use Flyinside? But I meant it very friendly: I just thought BaldyB didn't notice Flyinside does not work with/for Aerofly. So no harm done here and there is no need to stop posting here! Well, as long as it is slightly AFS2 related. :wink:  

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@HiFlyer,

    Back to the discussion of possible vertigo using FSX/P3D + FlyInside. I have flown system that a lot with my DK2 (before I discovered FS2 I also flew War Thunder and DCS) and don't seem to get vertigo but I would say that I have flown so many flight sims through the years (my  40 year career with the US Navy and Boeing Seattle) that I can adapt to the best there was there at 60fps with a real size cockpit shell for pilot training and to very stuttery 20-30fps engineering efforts. I do get some vertigo feelings if I don't have a cockpit structure around me - especially facing backwards. I did find that not having the fluid motion that FS2 provides really ruins the immersion of real life flight - I have my PPL. When we get the clarity of 2K/no SDE, it will be difficult to tell it's not real. I need to update my PC over the next year so I can get 5Ghz CPU and 1180 graphics!

 

P.S. Has anybody tried taking my VR clear vision test (see above in thread)? I really would like to hear a comparison from a CV1 user - I actually think my old fashioned lenses in the DK2 are better than the fresnel.

 

Dave

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P.S. Has anybody tried taking my VR clear vision test (see above in thread)? I really would like to hear a comparison from a CV1 user - I actually think my old fashioned lenses in the DK2 are better than the fresnel.

 

I gave it a try in the Pitts but well, I think testing this is a bit hard because things also depend on your position. Static tests are best: flying somewhere and then checking something is too complicated. Anyway, I tried the Pitts and it seemed that with my face just behind the lower wing (hard to tell) I can just read the words... but I can also read them because I know what they say, Things get blurred pretty quickly. If I move away from the wing, backwards, it's very hard to read. That is by far the biggest drawback of the Rift. Still, once you are immersed it doesn't bother me anymore, unless I actually need to see something sharp, of course. As I said yesterday it is hard to see the runway until you are getting close and things on;y stop being blurry when you land. Still... awesome experience. :wink: (Just drove around in Dirt Rally once more: incredible. What an immersive experience that is.)

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P.S. Has anybody tried taking my VR clear vision test (see above in thread)? I really would like to hear a comparison from a CV1 user - I actually think my old fashioned lenses in the DK2 are better than the fresnel.

 

Dave

 

 

This might be informative...

 

 

As a general rule, the consensus in the VR community is that the Rift seems better for things like flight sims, but that the Vives slightly wider (apparent) FOV might be preferable for other types of games.

 

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CV1 image quality based on this youtube review looks a bit too good to be true to me. CV1 only has slightly more pixels per eye than DK2, but both use the dreadful pentile subpixle layout which means you loss 50% of blue and red pixels.

 

I'm curiously waiting hear from HiFlyer how PiMax with 4K panels may pan out... 

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I'm curiously waiting hear from HiFlyer how PiMax with 4K panels may pan out...

 

And I'm dithering about buying it. Some of the reviews are very subpar, while some VR forums show ways the deficits can be compensated for.....

 

Everyone agrees the software is currently crap-o-licious, and some people have been unable to get the headset to work at all.

 

The instructions seem to be a website PDF in chinese.....

 

I'm torn. The saving grace right now is the thought that if I do pull the trigger and its awful, at least my nephew gets a free VR headset.  :lol:

 

Hmmmmmm.......

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Update: It looks like I should wait, especially if this is actually on the horizon. http://uploadvr.com/pimax-4k-200-fov-headset-ces-2017/

 

Then of course, there are real left-field items like the FOVE 0. This sort of thing sets my imagination racing ahead at lightspeed. If you can use the eye-tracking to only have hi resolution exactly where you are looking, processing requirements could drop significantly, and that could also allow for higher resolution headsets with moderate to maybe even no increase in overhead.

 

But more... Imagine being able to simply look at a nob or button you want to manipulate in the plane, and then be able to work it......... o.O

 

Even leap motion might seem the lesser choice in an environment like that......

 

I'm stuck in the present, but my mind wanders the future.  :lol:

 

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4K per eye plus 200 degree FOV, that sounds like dream VR set but too good to be true for 2017... Did PiMAX actually debut the VR set? 2017 CES is already a past.

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So it's interesting but definitely not worth buying at present. 

 

But having Pimax 8K on the market is a great thing. Even if Pimax fails to make the product to be truly useful, I hope their efforts should at least whip up those lazy ### of Oculus to push out at least a decent 4K CV2 asap... 

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CV1 image quality based on this youtube review looks a bit too good to be true to me.

 

That is actually pretty much how it looks to me in my CV1.

 

J van E?


 

 


But having Pimax 8K on the market is a great thing. Even if Pimax fails to make the product to be truly useful, I hope their efforts should at least whip up those lazy ### of Oculus to push out at least a decent 4K CV2 asap... 

 

Eggzactly.

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That is actually pretty much how it looks to me in my CV1.

 

J van E?

Yes, pretty much. Well, it feels like that anyway. I do have a bit more grain/noise than you see in that video but to me it isn't a very obvious screendoor effect. It is a bit hard, well, very hard, to tell on a video because with the Rift your mind plays tricks on you. ;) If I look for it, I might see it. But all in all it kind of does look like that on my Rift, with the blurries and all, and it CERTAINLY isn't as bad as DK2 looks in that video! Although some of the shots, like where you see the letters of Lucky, look good on both sides so I wonder how that guy created that video.

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I have been determined to skip CV1 and wait for 4K VR. But from what you guys said CV1 seems to be so much nicer than DK2, kind of tempting...

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I have been determined to skip CV1 and wait for 4K VR. But from what you guys said CV1 seems to be so much nicer than DK2, kind of tempting...

 

 

Well, withav8 thinks DK2 has a sharper image than the CV1... I guess it's all very personal too. 

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Well, what I meant to say about DK2 really was even though the DK2 image has more SDE and 25% less resolution, perhaps my old time thick lenses were a bit easier to focus clearly than with the fresnel - don't know. That's why I decided to create the "vision test". It sounded like from J van E that the results were very similar. I would encourage all VR folks to try the second part of the vision test which is to start your location right over the San Martin runway at maybe 5000 feet with early morning lighting and while doing a steep turn look out the left window and see if you can read the words "South County" on the runway, then go higher - I made it to 7500 before it was hard to read. The hardest thing to see from a distance is the runway and this is partly to do with lack of contrast with the surrounding imagery and objects and that it is at such an oblique angle. While I do want increased resolution and much less SDE in the second generation of consumer VR, I am not sure that seeing the runway clearly from 5 miles away or so is going to be a whole lot better unless we "sharpen" the image instead of anti-alias it. But let's hope!!

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Oh boy... DO I FEEL STUPID!!! On the Steam forum someone said something about being able to set the Render Scale Factor all the way right. I thought 'Hold it, that will make AFS2 crawl!' That's too much! When I came home I checked my settings and don't ask me why, but I found out I set RSF to 1.2 instead of 2.0... As I said, do I feel stupid... Somehow I only looked at the 2 and thought 1.2 was sort of the max for me... Of course I did a few tests after that, switching between the two settings, and well, yes... it does make a difference. Quite a difference. What a difference. Seriously, I already liked AFS2 in VR at 1.2, can you imagine how I like it right now at 2.0...?! Okay, it's still pixelated LOL but I can read things now which I couldn't read before. Yes, I already wondered why that test in the Pitts turned out quite bad and in favor of the DK2... :wink: Man... so stupid...

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@J van E,

       I was hoping it was something like that - you just didn't sound like you were seeing most things clear enough. Just for fun, start at 1.5 and work up to 2.0 - depending on some of the other settings, you can "overcook" the RSF and get it a little too sharp which results in the pixelated look. Now you can also play with Anisotropic and antialiasing settings. Maybe you also read Sequashtoo's thread called "Do you want 'crispness' with your lettuce? How 'bout your photoreal?" and maybe try some of his ideas for Nvidia Inspector. I'm not sure they are enabled correctly for me but I am trying them out. It's all a little nebulous about what Aerofly FS2, Render Scale Factor, Nvidia Control Panel, and Nvidia Inspector settings do together. Anyway, I'm glad you are even more excited about FS2 in VR. Remember, you can disable ASW with CNTL+Numpad1 and reenable it with CNTL+Numpad_4. I prefer just getting 90fps (actually 75fps for my DK2) solid and seeing incredible flight smoothness.

 

Dave

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Oh boy... DO I FEEL STUPID!!! On the Steam forum someone said something about being able to set the Render Scale Factor all the way right. I thought 'Hold it, that will make AFS2 crawl!' That's too much! When I came home I checked my settings and don't ask me why, but I found out I set RSF to 1.2 instead of 2.0... As I said, do I feel stupid... Somehow I only looked at the 2 and thought 1.2 was sort of the max for me... Of course I did a few tests after that, switching between the two settings, and well, yes... it does make a difference. Quite a difference. What a difference. Seriously, I already liked AFS2 in VR at 1.2, can you imagine how I like it right now at 2.0...?! Okay, it's still pixelated LOL but I can read things now which I couldn't read before. Yes, I already wondered why that test in the Pitts turned out quite bad and in favor of the DK2... :wink: Man... so stupid...

 

:Shame On You: I can't remember how many times I mentioned you should check that setting...........  :lol:

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