STAR exit points

[him225 51]

Other than the multiple STAR entry points also known as transitions what about multiple exit points, how are they handled in the FMCs and what are they called?

[Captain Kevin 586]

No real-world experience here, and I don't know what you'd call them, but best thing I would say is look at the charts, look for the runways you're landing on, select that runway in the FMC, and work from there. With the PMDG Boeing 747-400, it looks like it's already got the appropriate waypoints set up for the runway you plan to land on.

[him225 51]

I came across STAR charts for an airport which had multiple exit points possibly to aid in establishing spacing between aircraft when turning for localizer. In the particular airport their naming appeared to tally with ILS dme distance they were at. In one STAR the points were in a path while in other they diverged from a preceding waypoint suggesting a selection point. However looking at the navigraph procedures file only found one of the waypoints the closest one to the airport defined in both the STARs. So was curious how this is utilized in FMC for real flying and whether any addon aircraft support it.

[Sticky 267]

i think the correct "exit point" is loaded when you line select the runway.  It is a common mistake in the cockpit for the non flying pilot to load the expected approach and runway too far before arrive, which by then the airport can switch runways and aircraft tracks to the wrong termination point.

[him225 51]

The exit points are not tied to specific runways in the charts and the STARs are entirely common to the runways (parallel in this case) in a direction. The multiple exit points run parallel to the centerline, offset by a few miles from it. Navigraph appears to have defaulted to the exit point closest to the airport and omitted the others in the procedures file.

[him225 51]

found that although the additional exit points are not defined and included in the procedures they are present in the database, and possibly entered in flight on atc instructions to aid in separation vectoring.

[ubersu 78]

STAR exits come in three forms: 1) ATC will issue instructions at any time during your flight, 2) or, according to your direction of landing (N, S, E, W) - these will be defined in the additional written matter that may accompany a STAR, or 3) more simply, ATC will issue instructions after the final waypoint of the STAR. Runways generally don't get assigned until late in the flight, so it's up to you to make sure that the points of the STAR you've chosen are correct for your actual runway. Most everything you will ever want to know can be found in the FAA-H-8083-16 "Instrument Procedures Handbook".

DJ

[Guest]

I can only vouch for Europe!

Certainly over here it varies from Airport to Airport.

Larger International Airports in Europe typically will offer Radar Vectors at some point during a STAR. When you're vectored onto a radar HDG and if you're flying an aircraft with an FMC you basically join the dots in the FMC to ensure there are no Route Discontinuities and to provide accurate guidance to ensure VNAV (if instlalled and fitted) gives you accurate information during descent/approach.

Other Airports might have a STAR which terminates at some point but you can select a applicable TRANSITION which is essentially routing from the termination point to the extended centerline for the runway in use.

Some destinations might have a STAR which terminates at a VOR over the airfield or put you in a position which not appropriate for the runway in use! You might fly something like a teardrop procedure from the VOR to the runway or be vectored way before you reach the VOR. You then have to manipulate and create waypoints in the FMC based on your expected routing

It can be difficult to plan an Approach and Arrival and in reality ATC can change the routing at very short notice.

It's worth noting that Speed/Altitude restrictions built into approaches can sometimes leave aircraft high/low on profile so you might have to modify them to ensure you can maintain a continuous descent. 

 

Hope this helped! 

[him225 51]

STARs terminating at top of the airfield is definitely a weird one, TESAT waypoint at YSSY comes to mind.

About the points on the extended centerline of runway, noticed that stock fsx and navigraph use waypoints named as CI and FI for IAF and FAF points while navdatapro has them as ils ident followed by dme distance, which had me wondering if these names are actually defined by airport authorities or custom designated by the database builders based on approach plates?

 

[ubersu 78]

CI and IF are ARINC 424 waypoint types - not names. Because most FS FMC equipped aircraft are not ARINC compliant, you'll see pseudo names used to make things work. You will also see waypoints that don't exist in the real world to define (for example) RF legs that most models don't recognize.

DJ 

[him225 51]

Indeed have seen several waypoints in the sim not present in approach plates defining such as vor dme arcs.

Have noticed at places CF/FF as well other than CI/FI denoting the IAF/FAF points, are these and of navdatapro related to different database standards? How are these points defined in the real database?

[ubersu 78]

You can find all of the ARINC 424 leg/waypoint definitions online by Googling. You can also find a document titled "FMS_Format_v400.pdf " that shows how these definitions relate to the DA Fokker and how they are implemented for that aircraft and the Aerosoft Airbus. Navigraph and NavDataPro are both based on the same AIRINC standard - the difference is simply a matter of designer preferences for implementations. For example, in the PMDG data by both developers, you will find pseudo-waypoints that define RF type legs that the aircraft can't natively handle. Each dev has a different approach to faking them.

DJ

[Guest]

On 3/7/2017 at 3:03 PM, him225 said:

STARs terminating at top of the airfield is definitely a weird one, TESAT waypoint at YSSY comes to mind.

About the points on the extended centerline of runway, noticed that stock fsx and navigraph use waypoints named as CI and FI for IAF and FAF points while navdatapro has them as ils ident followed by dme distance, which had me wondering if these names are actually defined by airport authorities or custom designated by the database builders based on approach plates?

 

Our operator changed our Data Supplier from Jeppessen to Navtech a few years ago (737-800 Operator) which changed the identification of waypoints in the FMC.