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Community - The meaning of Support?

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Ron says:"I say you "are not authorized to provide support for products from our organization"All I can say is: Wow...Good Luck with That....You say I am not authorized as if you could actually do something to prevent people from giving advice.Oh and ummm, whoever said support has to be Official and Authorized in order to have merit. You? Your team of hard working, skilled people?Again, there is not a thing you can do legally or otherwise to prevent people from giving their opinion or advice on your product or anyone elses for that matter, unless a Doctor, Lawyer, or other licensed entity applies.And unless you can show some sort of laws that prove otherwise, yours is an opinion only and not backed up by any legal precedant, IMHO. Nobody is speaking for others, but if you actually believe that I or anyone else will heed your opinion about giving unauthorized advice or support, I'm afraid you will be dissapointed.Well good luck with your version of support, and I'll stick to mine.From your website:http://www.eaglesoftdg1.com/faqs.htm"We at Eaglesoft Development Group welcome your input, suggestions and even your criticism."and:"if you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please contact us!"So when you say you welcome input or suggestions, or criticism, do you really mean that, or can only you and your staff offer suggestions. It doesn't say one MUST contact you, it says Please.So much for unauthorized, IMHO.I also have another question. I looked at your support forums, and have to ask?Do you REQUIRE people to register just to be able to view the questions other than the FAQ's? You can do that of course, I just disagree with hiding questions that others may benefit from.**********************Well, here is my advice, input, suggestion, comment, & criticism for you Ron, and I won't even require you to go to another site and log on to receive it.Your FREEWARE Software by phpBB 2.0.8 as shown on your website, has a potential severe security FLAW and needs to be updated to 2.0.11, so that you don't continue to expose your members to a potentially serious exploit. You Know my Host notified me of this a while back, so you may want to rectify that FREEWARE Program you are using and maybe consider an upograde.Details Here:http://www.phpbb.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=240636There, now I have given you unauthorized advice, and I'll be waiting to see what you do about that.I hope you upgrade your forums Ron. And I hope you take my advice and learn to appreciate that even though people may not be an expert or skilled in your eyes up to a level that pleases you, they still may have some good advice and support to give even you from time to time. :-)One more note, as to what I've told people in the past about YOUR Products, Look here. And it seems my advice was pretty relevant too. Have a Nice day. :-)http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...ing_type=searchRegards,Joe


CryptoSonar on Twitch & YouTube. 

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Hi, Joe -I'm a software developer for a very large company whose products frequently show up as models in FS... How do I get support on those fairly rare occasions when I can't figure out what the heck a very expensive, 3d party, product is doing to me?1. I go to the vendor site and search the knowledge base and user forums.2. Then I go to product targeted developer sites to see if someone had a better idea or understanding than I found in 1.3. If all else fails, I search the newsgroups and do a serious Google search.This technique works just fine and generally allows me to ferret out the info I need, and if it doesn't I ask around the forums and the newsgroups and usually get a useful response. In return I answer other people's questions, that are within my areas of expertise, that I find when I'm bouncing around these sources.It is true that general enthusiast forae (like these) have a high noise level. There are a lot of opinions and a lot of well meaning folks who really don't have a clue. There are also a number of folks who have the expertise to usefully answer questions - even though they may never have developed software in their lives. They got their expertise the hard way - by spending hundreds, or thousands, of hours using the product. I salute them!I understand the developers' frustration when they see folks asking questions all over the place rather than in the forums they've dedicated to that purpose. On the other hand, IMHO, those are the breaks. If that's what the users want to do, then they have every right to do so. If someone studies a product and wants to publish their findings on any forum, they have every right to do so - whether the developer likes it or not. If those findings are incorrect or ill-considered, the community will soon find out and react appropriately. I've noted a recent tendency on the part of some of the vendors to declare that any mention of the technical aspects of their product is a 'support' issue and has no place in the general forae - that they, and they alone, are qualified to discuss those aspects. I most strongly disagree with that approach and, as a developer myself, suggest that in the end that closed shop mentality is self defeating and results in inferior products.I've learned a lot through the forums - some of it pure revelation, and some of it picked up as I'm forced to do research to refute someone else's answers. I would hate to see these valuable resources reduced to puerility by the vendors themselves.DJ

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In that thread Ron, note my response Vs. The three that followed it, and then yours.Those are certainly to be proud of huh?


CryptoSonar on Twitch & YouTube. 

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You certainly know how to beat a dead horse all the way to the bone, I'll give you that, Joe.


Fr. Bill    

AOPA Member: 07141481 AARP Member: 3209010556


     Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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Howdy,there was this story in the news the other day. A swimmer got bitten in his leg by a smallish (2-ft) shark. Try as he might, he couldn't get the shark to let go so he had to fight his way back to the beach and get help to have the shark removed.Guess whose style of "discussion" reminds me of that shark? :-vuur Then again, as Joe himself points out, we all have our unique ways to contribute to the community...Cheers, Holger

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And that is the best you two can do.Have a nice day. :-)


CryptoSonar on Twitch & YouTube. 

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The disclaimer that you Joe "are not authorized to provide support for our products" is stated publically here so that users you may try to "help" may be aware that whatever you post is your own opinion and not not "authorized" by us.That does not infringe upon your freedom of speech or opinion. It simply makes others aware that you are not "authorized to provide support for our products"The question still remains...why go to Piper for support on your Cessna? I would think that the Piper Co. would know more about their products than the local Cessna pilot:-)Your quote from our site: "We at Eaglesoft Development Group welcome your input, suggestions and even your criticism. If you have any comments, questions, or suggestions, please contact us!"Your Quote: So when you say you welcome input or suggestions, or criticism, do you really mean that, or can only you and your staff offer suggestions. It doesn't say one MUST contact you, it says Please.From your quote above you reveal a misunderstanding of our statements. We do receive input, suggestions, and even criticism on a daily basis and that was after all the purpose of the statements. Nowhere in our statements is there any mention that support for our products is available from anyone or anywhere except our Support Forums, Flight One Software and/or direct email.Your Question: Do you REQUIRE people to register just to be able to view the questions other than the FAQ's?Our Answer: We REQUIRE people to register in our support forums because they are maintained for Customer Product Support.:-)Nothing in our support forums is "secret" for those who register and login....seems that would defeat the purpose of a support forum:-)Freeware bulletin board software works well for us so we see no problem with it...why should you?We have been aware of of the security issue for quite some time now but with development work, just moving to a new house and the Christmas Season in full swing we only found the time this very morning to do the update.:-) Thanks for the reminder though.


Best Regards,

Ron Hamilton PP|ASEL

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