Anyone using two 4k screens for wide screen view with FSX or P3D?

[Pete Dowson 558]

I want to upgrade my 1080p simulator screen to 4k.

 

I'm thinking of replacing my 10 foot wide projection screen with two 4k UHD TV screens *. I need two to get the same or similar 10 foot width of view, suiting the hardware cockpit.

 

I know my system can handle 4k scenery view output without any unacceptable performance degradation, but I cannot test with 2 such screens, and obviously don't want to go down this route if the results are going to be unacceptable.

 

So, if anyone has tried or is actually using FSX, FSX-SE or P3D with two 4K screens connected to the same PC and displaying one or more Windows from the simulation, can they post some information about resulting performance, please?

 

Pete Dowson

 

* The reason for this is that I need short-throw projection, else the cockpit itself gets in the way. Short throw 4K projectors are almost non-existent. I found a Sony one, but that was priced at a whopping £50,000!

 

 

 

[odourboy 1,288]

Based on the replies so far, it looks like you may be pioneering this configuration. Having gone to 4K a year ago, one thing to confirm is if you can run two 4K monitors on a single card (I don't think you can, but I'm not 100% sure) and if not, the implications of a second card.

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

Pushing a lot of pixels... :wink:

[Angelo Cosma 61]

You should talk to Michael Swannick, look up swannsim on youtube. Hes an Avsim member here.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Well, I decided to try some tests by using the nVidia driver's "DSR" facility, which allows you to increase the resolution of the image being sent to the video card up to 4x, with it then being reduced by the card back to your screen's capability.

 

The results using my worst-case scenario, using my 4-year old development PC not my new faster cockpit PC are shown below. I used that PC because the screen on it is a high resolution (but below 4k) Dell curved one and I can get closer to the change from 1080p to 2 x 2160p:

 

Both sims were at UK2000 EGLL with loads of traffic (my limiter is set to 250), and the in-sim settings are those I use generally on the cockpit.

 

At native resolution 3440 x 1440

    FSX-SE:           42 fps average

    P3D3.4:    32 fps average

 

At 3X (5958 x 2494):

    FSX-SE:           33 fps average

    P3D3.4:    29 fps average

  

At 4X (6880 x 2880):

    FSX-SE:           32 fps average

    P3D3.4:    27 fps average

 

The 3X setting gives less pixels than the 7680 x 2160 of 2 X 4K screens side-by-side, but the 4X setting is more pixels. So the above results are encouraging. I'm staying with FSX-SE for now because in the tests it was smooth whilst P3D was very jerky. I think P3D does not like UK2000 scenery at all, and it isn't very fond of AI Traffic either!

 

Pete

[sloppysmusic 189]

I've been doing a LOT of testing with multiple monitors of different sizes and resolutions on fsx se with 4k main screen. Both nvidia and ATI cards. Not 2 x 4k YET although I can see me considering 3x4k the way my nvidia testing is going. Have you tried nvidia surround? I am starting to loath it after the flawless ATI eyefinity results I was getting but should work with simple 1x2 setup you are trying. After using multiple windows and screens in fsx for years I will never go back after witnessing the glory of a single 7600x2160 virtual display in action on the ATI card (1x4k plus 2x 1080p).

Solid 30fps almost every thing maxed. Problem is I can't do it with the nvidia software. Have a 1080 coming in but might not even use it if it won't do what I tell it to. Silly as the humble gtx 750ti I am using to test with is silky smooth. Best result so far with custom displays using 4k is with my r9 390x. I DO have 3x4k screens in house. If it's a simple test you need I can haul another one into my work area. Dang 750ti only has 1 hdmi out though looking for dvi to hdmi or display port to hdmi adapter at moment.

I am very interested in talking to others about 4k multi screen with 1080p side screens setups.

Hey you say you can't test with TWO such screens at moment can you test with one? I mean by opening up an extra 4k window view on same monitor you can at least check the performance? Or do you have zero 4k screens at present?

[sloppysmusic 189]

http://www.geforce.com/hardware/technology/surround/system-requirements

 

Well with that link I found the 1080 should do what I can't do with the 750ti. Have to be patient and wait for it to arrive.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Hey you say you can't test with TWO such screens at moment can you test with one? I mean by opening up an extra 4k window view on same monitor you can at least check the performance? Or do you have zero 4k screens at present?

 

I have zero 4K screens. I have a 3440 x 1440 screen. I tried to emulate the effect of 2 x 4k screens by using the nVidia facility to multiply the resolution by 4. See results above. Not sure it's a really valid test, but it seemed to bear out what I've been told about resolution vs performance.

 

Another problem I can see with what I want to do. I think my 1080 card has only one HDMI output -- the others are displayports which aren't supported by 4K TVs (I've not found a PC 4K monitor of the size I'd need -- 65"). So I might have to get another 1080 as well.

 

Pete

[sloppysmusic 189]

 

 

I think my 1080 card has only one HDMI output

 

Which 1080 card do you have? I know the reference one has 1xhdmi 1xdvi and 3 displayport.

 

The dvi will do 4k for sure, as long as you are fine with a refresh rate of 30 /30fps. 

 

I am 99% certain you have the power to drive 2 x 4k screens. My lowly backup gtx 750ti runs 4k maxed out except water and ai easily at 30 fps (with everything orbx and asn running). The r9 390x (which is not supposed to like fsx) I used before had 1x4k and 2x1080p screens running as one large viewport fast as well. The 1080 should have no problem with 'just' 2x4k screens.

 

displayport to hdmi to 4k tv should also work fine even with non v2.0 cables but once again max 30hz.

 

If 30hz is fine when my 1080 arrives in a couple of days I can plug 2x 4k tvs in and see what the performance is (on an i7-3770).

 

If you need 60hz (and I dont blame you with your setup so far) a HDMI 2.0 or later CERTIFIED adapter from DP with HDMI 2 cable should give you it with one card. The 1080 has a very modest power draw so running 2 cards would be simplest if you have another $600 or EU equivalent to spare.

You will not regret going 4k with FSX. It really is the Holy Grail of resolutions, the point at which only the color gamut informs your brain your're not looking out of a window at the real world.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Which 1080 card do you have? I know the reference one has 1xhdmi 1xdvi and 3 displayport.

 

The dvi will do 4k for sure, as long as you are fine with a refresh rate of 30 /30fps. 

 

 

It's a "Palit" (installed by the place I got the PC built, and looks to be the same -- 1 HDMI, 1 DVI and 3 DPs. I am using the DVI at present for 1080p on my projector.

 

Not sure whether the TVs I'm looking at can do 30 Hz. They'll be able to do 24 Hz to match DVDs of films, so probably. Though I'd be happier at 60 Hz.

 

If you need 60hz (and I dont blame you with your setup so far) a HDMI 2.0 or later CERTIFIED adapter from DP with HDMI 2 cable should give you it with one card.

 

 

 

I note the emphasis on "certified". There's a load of such adapters on Amazon, but most certified at 1080p. Some 4k ones only do 30Hz. Here's the only one which seems to do the job:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Plugable-DisplayPort-Supports-displays-3840x2160/dp/B00S0C7QO8/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1486118382&sr=8-3&keywords=Certified+Displayport+to+HDMI+4K

 

Thanks for the advice! Made me look further. And I might go for the 2 card solution in any case, but an adapter is worth a try first.

 

Pete

[sloppysmusic 189]

You are welcome! Not much info on here for 4k users yet although I know Im not the only one, someone else often references his '55 inch 4k tv" (which is the same size I use as my main display).

 

Yes the Amazon link product looks great. Have to find a USA one for me. Dont know what the UK is like but over here standards mean nothing in tech products. Doesn't matter what the standards are, they are only 'voluntary'. Guess it's the only way the mass import of junk from overseas survives. Purchased a 100 ft CAT 6 cable run from Lowes recently to make a custom patch. When I crimped it I noticed it was cat 5 with cat 6 on the label, all down the length and on packing and shelf display. But it was inferior Cat 5 sold at Cat 6 price. Sad but true.

 

As regards frame rates, with the 'mighty gtx750ti' I am getting silky smooth 30 fps rate on the 4k TV using nvidia half refresh rate setting and no other nvidia settings at all letting fsx handle all the tweaks. For reference that's FSX-SE/RealAir Duke Turbine/OrbX Global + Vector + Regions (extra large airports drop it to 20-25) +AS2016 Live weather all settings maxed except water at low or mid 2/traffic at 25 (using your limiter @200) and max textures 5cm not 1cm. Cloud draw 80. 

 

be interested to see which TV's you are looking at, you mention 65"? They 'should' all do 24/30/60 at minimum with HD/4k standards moving away from all the old region stuff (PAL/NTSC/SECAM). I think 30 is great when SMOOTH, unless you are doing acrobatics (or 45 degree turns) when a barf bag may be necessary.

 

let us know any results, please! Will do the same myself. It's possible to buy 3x 43 inch 4k tv's here now for $1000. In no time I reckon a standard setup will be 3 of those, especially once we go 64 bit. in the meantime FSX still cuts the mustard for me.

[Pete Dowson 558]

Dont know what the UK is like but over here standards mean nothing in tech products. Doesn't matter what the standards are, they are only 'voluntary'. 

 

Good here generally, but with us leaving the EU I worry that a lot of those regulations will be ditched (as a "barrier to trade" -- and profiteering). I hope not.

 

be interested to see which TV's you are looking at, you mention 65"?

 

Yes. One or other of the LG OLEDs I think -- 65OLEDB6V, 65OLEDE6V or the top model ("signature edition") 65OLENG6V. 

 

I think 30 is great when SMOOTH, unless you are doing acrobatics (or 45 degree turns) when a barf bag may be necessary.

 

 

No acrobatics in my 738 cockpit! I've been trying 30Hz with the projection and it does seem maybe a little smoother, if I limit FS to 30 fps too.

 

 It's possible to buy 3x 43 inch 4k tv's here now for $1000.

 

Three screens are better as you don't have the bezels in the centre, obscuring runway centre lines and so on, but the height then is nowhere near enough for my view from the cockpit. It would be different if I had room for a wrap-around view, but as it is I can only accommodate a straight, or maybe slightly curved, 10 foot width.

 

My alternative to a two screen solution is to wait and hope that 4K short throw projectors become available reasonably soon. The only ones I found are the Sony at £50,000 or their ultra wide angle short throw projector coming out in the US in April at an estimated $25000.

 

Pete Dowson

[Angelo Cosma 61]

Good here generally, but with us leaving the EU I worry that a lot of those regulations will be ditched (as a "barrier to trade" -- and profiteering). I hope not.

 

 

Yes. One or other of the LG OLEDs I think -- 65OLEDB6V, 65OLEDE6V or the top model ("signature edition") 65OLENG6V. 

 

 

 

No acrobatics in my 738 cockpit! I've been trying 30Hz with the projection and it does seem maybe a little smoother, if I limit FS to 30 fps too.

 

 

Three screens are better as you don't have the bezels in the centre, obscuring runway centre lines and so on, but the height then is nowhere near enough for my view from the cockpit. It would be different if I had room for a wrap-around view, but as it is I can only accommodate a straight, or maybe slightly curved, 10 foot width.

 

My alternative to a two screen solution is to wait and hope that 4K short throw projectors become available reasonably soon. The only ones I found are the Sony at £50,000 or their ultra wide angle short throw projector coming out in the US in April at an estimated $25000.

 

Pete Dowson

 

Pete have you looked at Nat Vis for your visual solution? Nat Crea does some amazing stuff. 

[Pete Dowson 558]

Pete have you looked at Nat Vis for your visual solution? Nat Crea does some amazing stuff. 

 

Can't find anything on "Nat Crea", but I'll ask Nat Vis for a quote for a consultation. Thanks.

 

Pete