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Kuragiman

On The Fence... STILL

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So I have watched a bunch of XP11 videos with add-ons like X-Plane Life and xEnviro.   It is impressive.   The sim still lacks the aircraft I want to fly but they are coming sooner or later.

 

I am still on the fence though because there is a problem with all the videos I have watched... EVERY single one of them that go in depth.. is in Europe.  X-Plane has ALWAYS catered more to Europe flyers than United States in my opinion.   Are there any good videos of US areas BESIDES New York?   It just feels like all the effort to make X-Plane look its best via payware or freeware mods are all based in the European theater.   I have only seen New York and parts of Seattle in the US shown in screen caps and videos.  Maybe that's all that is out there in the Beta?

 

Some questions for you X-Plane 11 fanatics

===================================

 

Is there good OSM data for the USA/Canda so I can have a semi-completed road network displayed below me.

Are the major cities represented in a decent fashion in the USA/Canada?

How many good payware/freeware airports are there for major hubs in the USA/Canada? (That KDFW is looking sexy!)

How much Photoreal scenery is available already for USA/Canada?  I don't have time to sit there in Ortho4XP and all that jazz.

 

 

Some screen caps in this thread with all the bells and whistles running from you guys that have them installed would be nice.    I have about $3000-$4000 invested in Prepar3D and I am not willing to make the switch unless XP11 meets my needs at least 90% of the way.  The often spoken solution of "Just use both" is not something I am interested in.   I want a one stop shop for my simulation needs.   X-Plane 11 is shaping up beautifully and after running the Demo it has an impressive frame rate and smoothness in the tests I did.  (though setting up my joystick, throttle and rudder is still a bit wonky for some reason).

 

I think I have done enough research.   Let's see what you guys answer to the questions below.

 

1.  Best ATC add-on?

2.  Best weather engine?

3.  Best environment engine?

4.  Best AI-Traffic add-on?

 

Thanks for your input.

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Is there good OSM data for the USA/Canda so I can have a semi-completed road network displayed below me.

- Yes, the OSM road data for the US and Canada is actually very good. Far more accurate than what you'd see in FSX/P3D, and it's easy to update.

 

Are the major cities represented in a decent fashion in the USA/Canada?

- In my opinion, yes. The default scenery depicts American cities quite well, and there are plenty of free or payware addons which add more realistic cities or landmarks.

 

How many good payware/freeware airports are there for major hubs in the USA/Canada? (That KDFW is looking sexy!)

- The only ones that come to mind are MisterX`s fantastic KBOS, KLAX and San Francisco. I'm sure there are more but I don't generally fly in the US.

 

How much Photoreal scenery is available already for USA/Canada?  I don't have time to sit there in Ortho4XP and all that jazz.

- Not much at all if you don't want to make it yourself. There is some payware over at x-aviation, but it's pretty much out-of-date and washed out. I'm sure somebody at some point will share their USGS photoscenery, but at the moment you're out of luck if you want an easy solution. 

 

I don't think anyone here can convince you to switch, you need to do this yourself. What is nice for one person is awful for another. You can pick up XP11 and use it with only freeware for a bit and if you don't like it, it's not a huge amount of money and maybe come back again in a year or two and XP11 will still work and almost certainly there will be more addons. 

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I don't understand why you are on the fence if you are satisfied with what you have now. That's what drove me from FSX/P3D to X-plane. I just hated how dated visually  FSX/P3D seems even fully loaded, it's just so cartoony looking. The looks and performance is what pushed me over the fence. I even hit a milestone as this is the first PMDG release (747) that I will not be buying :( as no way I can go back now.

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I don't understand why you are on the fence if you are satisfied with what you have now.

 

Very good point. If you are already satisfied and happy with P3D and your addons, then it's going to take a lot of patience to get to the same level in XP11. 

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Why not get the best of both worlds and use both sims, you do not have to be restricted to one or the other. Like you I have $$$ invested in P3D. I still use it while I am tweaking XP11. Also remember XP has a huge community providing quality freeware and also you can create your own photo scenery. I have downloaded a bunch of stuff, including the MisterX airports and the EADT 737NG and only invested $60 in the sim. Although I just picked up the SSG 747-8 earlier this week. My first payware aircraft.

 

Also you can convert your P3D airport scenery to work in XP. Thomas Rasmussen has tutorials on youtube. The Flytampa airports like Dubai actually look a lot better in XP than P3D. The textures are really crisp.

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Wow, are those pictures default?...I am only on the Beta so nothing outside Ksea....but that sort of scenery will get me into the club.

 

Just hope the UK looks like this too...default.... I fly a lot in Europe. All airline, so that would be nice along with some good airports and a updated Bus from Jar.

 

Getting more converted by the day!

 

Cheers

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X-Plane has ALWAYS catered more to Europe flyers than United States in my opinion.

 

Really?  I always thought it was just the opposite.  At least I know that a lot of people from Europe complain about the auto-gen scenery looking more American than European.

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Wow, are those pictures default?...I am only on the Beta so nothing outside Ksea....but that sort of scenery will get me into the club.

 

Just hope the UK looks like this too...default.... I fly a lot in Europe. All airline, so that would be nice along with some good airports and a updated Bus from Jar.

 

Getting more converted by the day!

 

Cheers

 

No, those are not default - but with readily available freeware (MrX6´s airports, if I am not mistaken). So, yeah - while they look really nice, they are not really represenative of the way XP11 looks in the US (which is what the OP wanted to know), so posting these isn´t helpful, actually quite the opposite. If someone buys XP11, thinking that this is the way it will look - disappointment guaranteed. It´s like someone asking how FSX looks, and then to post some ORBX images...

 

So to get back to the OP´s question: I personally think that X-Plane has always been very U.S. centric until XP11. A common gripe was that all cities worldwide looked like the US, and this has only recently changed. More regional variety will certainly follow, it will just take some time.

 

Landclass and elevation mesh are great for the US, too - I can´t post screenshots because its a huge hassle on avsim.

 

Cheers, Jan

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Really?  I always thought it was just the opposite.  At least I know that a lot of people from Europe complain about the auto-gen scenery looking more American than European.

Indeed, I keep repeating how lucky are US pilots to have top quality free airports and freeware orthophotos to share. In Europe you won't find key hub yet like Frankfurt, Munich, Charles de gaulle, Rome, Milano, Madrid, Budapest... done at high quality no matter if freeware or payware.

 

For UK just download Tony's UK Pro scenery and slowly create your photoreal tiles for new places you visit. After that you will look at Orbx LC with a laugh on your face and your credit card without an added line.

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No its not default, but you can get all them packages off the org in about 10 minutes...for free. The surrounding scenery is the default though

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Really?  I always thought it was just the opposite.  At least I know that a lot of people from Europe complain about the auto-gen scenery looking more American than European.

 

I think it's a mixed situation. Until the new European (German) building autogen was added in XP11, there were complaints about how every area outside the USA still used that style of buildings. However, OSM data for buildings is apparently still better in Europe/UK than in the USA, so the accuracy of building placement is still iffy in many parts of the USA (and Canada) compared to Europe. For example, my home town is on the outskirts of the Seattle area, and it doesn't look very good because the OSM data just isn't there yet. The roads in the USA however, are very accurate.

 

FWIW, I do a lot of flying in Western Canada, BC and the coast. You won't find airports at every single location, but all the major ones are there, and many of the smaller ones in places like Vancouver Island are there because it's a popular flying area, People have submitted airports to the Gateway so they appear in the default scenery. This area also has two of the very best small GA payware airports for X-Plane: CZST - Stewart and CYBD - Bella Coola: http://beti-x.com/sceneries.html

 

One final note to the OP: You mentioned wanting orthophotos, but I'd suggest giving X-Plane's default look of landclass + autogen buildings and roads a chance. I know some people are wedded to orhtophotos, but I've never liked the squashed and blurry appearance at low altitude, or the lighting effect at dusk, dawn, and night. X-Plane is improving all the time in this area. Give it a chance, and you might end up preferring the look without orthophotos. Especially in areas like Canada or other parts of the world where there just aren't many good data sources to begin with.

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I probably would if there was a good 700/800 737 to fly.    I am not interested in an outdated 300 model which appears to be the best 737 sim available at the moment.    I fly heavy iron 99% of the time and have little interest in GA aircraft.    I like to simulate airline ops and I don't think XP is quite there yet.   I want that performance and access to all 32 gigs of memory I have installed for horizon level Autogen.  With that level of Autogen you don't really need ortho as long as the OSM data is accurate and the autogen is placed logically (commerical/residential/inudstrial where they should be).

 

I guess I should just toss the cash at them because it encourages more 3rd party devs to look seriously at supporting the platform.    

 

 

I do like P3D a lot but even with all its updates and 3k worth of add-ons it is still lacking the performance I expect out of my hardware and that's just because the ESP engine is beaten to death.   It is not a efficient engine and it just can't take advantage of today's hardware as well as a newer coded platform can.

 

Is anyone here using X-Life Deluxe?   Does it do a good job of populating most major hubs with air traffic?

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99% liners cannot be but disappointed in current offer of XP addons.

 

No serious ATC utility unless you port one from FSX like Pilot2ATC.

No serious AI unless you're ready to cope with custom settings and low coverage of airports.

Small heavy tubes study sim offer.

 

I don't put weather in as with Xenviro I'm pretty much happy, but being release 1.0 of course is not yet complete as a multi suite weather addon like AS16+this+that can offer in PR3D

 

So I think you have to cope with bad performance of PR3D and come back to XP11 in 9 months or more to check the improvements: WT3 is coming, XENviro and SMP will improve, maybe REX will come, ther could be new liners of high quality from PMDG and eventually LR could have improved ATC to FSX standard (with is not that much either).

 

In my case I'm in a hybrid situation: I was used to fly liners with UT2 lively airport + ATC but in XP I moved to casual GA flying and scenery creation. As written maybe in a yer or so I will again move to high altitude if the liner environemnt improves.

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I know you didn't want to hear it again, but if I had thousands invested in P3D, then I'd simply run both sims. Personally, I think total switches is silly!  I often see complaints of " I miss this & that, but I'm willing to do without, hoping that whatever, comes soon".   Just run both. Less heartache. 

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I run both as well! It's not that costly. Just budget a little and only buy 1 or 2 addons at first. Get all th freeware you can and then decide if xp is worth it.

 

The photoscenery (x plane world calls it orthoscenery) textures are amazing. It's pretty easy to make yourself once you get the hang of it (and have plenty of HDD space!) And you automatically have photo textures beneath accurate roads and auto gen. Not just flat photoscenery!

 

Oh, K - send me a pm with your email and some places you want to see and at what times of day - I'll send you some pics

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I probably would if there was a good 700/800 737 to fly.    I am not interested in an outdated 300 model which appears to be the best 737 sim available at the moment.    I fly heavy iron 99% of the time and have little interest in GA aircraft. ....

 

Hey Brian, check this freeware version out.

 

http://www.eadt.eu/index.php?new-x737-version-5

 

 

Regards,

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So I have watched a bunch of XP11 videos with add-ons like X-Plane Life and xEnviro.   It is impressive.   The sim still lacks the aircraft I want to fly but they are coming sooner or later.

 

I am still on the fence though because there is a problem with all the videos I have watched... EVERY single one of them that go in depth.. is in Europe.  X-Plane has ALWAYS catered more to Europe flyers than United States in my opinion.   Are there any good videos of US areas BESIDES New York?   It just feels like all the effort to make X-Plane look its best via payware or freeware mods are all based in the European theater.   I have only seen New York and parts of Seattle in the US shown in screen caps and videos.  Maybe that's all that is out there in the Beta?

 

Some questions for you X-Plane 11 fanatics

===================================

 

Is there good OSM data for the USA/Canda so I can have a semi-completed road network displayed below me.

Are the major cities represented in a decent fashion in the USA/Canada?

How many good payware/freeware airports are there for major hubs in the USA/Canada? (That KDFW is looking sexy!)

How much Photoreal scenery is available already for USA/Canada?  I don't have time to sit there in Ortho4XP and all that jazz.

 

 

Some screen caps in this thread with all the bells and whistles running from you guys that have them installed would be nice.    I have about $3000-$4000 invested in Prepar3D and I am not willing to make the switch unless XP11 meets my needs at least 90% of the way.  The often spoken solution of "Just use both" is not something I am interested in.   I want a one stop shop for my simulation needs.   X-Plane 11 is shaping up beautifully and after running the Demo it has an impressive frame rate and smoothness in the tests I did.  (though setting up my joystick, throttle and rudder is still a bit wonky for some reason).

 

I think I have done enough research.   Let's see what you guys answer to the questions below.

 

1.  Best ATC add-on?

2.  Best weather engine?

3.  Best environment engine?

4.  Best AI-Traffic add-on?

 

Thanks for your input.

 

You spent 3-4k and you are on the fence about spending $60 ! lol.... 

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Well..I can see his side...

 

$60 bucks is just the entrance fee when you realize the effort to come of all the potential new add ons and spending..

 

And then after you spend 3-4k you walk away to build again afresh....

 

This hobby isn't cheap and at the end of the day there are many broken promises.  But its great that X-Plane offers so much with that initial $60 investment....its gotta be the best deal in the sim biz right now.

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You spent 3-4k and you are on the fence about spending $60 ! lol.... 

 

Helpful.

 

Yes.  I am.   Because I rarely leave a sim in its DEFAULT state.    Before I dump 1000+ more on a new sim I want it to cater to MY needs.   If it doesn't then I'll wait or abandon it.    P3D is great.  Love it but I am always looking for the next great thing that isn't stuck in 2007 like FSX/P3D.   XP11 looks very impressive with what it can do, especially that night lighting engine but I wanted to know what it can do with the current add-on state.

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I still use both. However, IF XPII had traffic, GSX, PMDG jet support, etc, it would be my permanent sim.  

 

These photos are using Ortho4XP at Zoom Level 17. It's kinda a pain to get it running at first, BUT it's FREE and it looks better than orbx IMO. No, there are no winter textures when using Ortho4XP, but if using the standard scenery (in conjunction with HD Mesh V3), there is a FREE winter package adding winter ground textures. I now have both sims locked at 30FPS, and in XPL it never goes below, regardless of where I am. World Traffic 3 is coming out soon and that should add more traffic, but Pilot Edge/Vatsim work fine for now. 

 

As much as you may not like the IXEG being "old," southwest still flies them, AND it is the most comprehensive jet for XPL right now aside from the FF 767/757. If you like to practice failures on any particular system, the simulation of these systems are spot on. 

 

I really enjoy flying Turboprops in XPL because they are modeled so beautifully. With many many hours IRL flying turbo props, XPL does the PT6 justice. 

 

PROS: 

High performance, visuals, stability, flight dynamics, computer resource management, COMMUNITY SUPPORT, Very high quality freeware scenery (google just about any airport and you'll find scenery for it), versatility, free plugins etc.

 

CONS: Clouds transparent at night  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  (extremely annoying, hopefully fixed soon), lack of competition between developers, lack of PMDG support for airliners, still in BETA, lack of AI traffic versatility.

 

With that said, the two photos below are using Ortho4XP an xEnviro. Carenado 210 and default 737. 

 

2yyz0c9.pnge6yipw.png

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Before I dump 1000+ more on a new sim I want it to cater to MY needs

 

There's the important word "MY needs". Yes you can have tonnes of free high-quality scenery and you could even cover the US in orthos if you want without spending a penny (or dime), however since you don't fly GA, need good ATC and weather and don't want to fly the 737 classic, then I'll be the first to jump up and say stick with P3D. 

 

Why not spend the $60 on X-Plane 11, keep it installed (or you can just reinstall it at any time). PMDG have already mentioned they are creating products for X-Plane, and although ORBX bailed out, I believe no love is lost here. Weather wise, xEnviro and SMP both aren't there yet for me, but we may also see REX at some point.

 

I'm sure you are well aware that the next release of P3D is likely to be 64-bit. I doubt most of your products will continue to work so you'll be in exactly the same boat, in fact I would wager to say that X-Plane will actually be well ahead of P3D 64-bit with addons when it is released (even if that was tomorrow). It also gets more complicated because I believe developers only target P3D because it's more or less the same platform as FSX, but when they diverge to the point that they are no longer compatible, P3D stops becoming such an attractive platform. The same also applies to DTG's FlightSim. Most simmers/gamers probably will pick up FSX or DTG from steam, never post anything on Avsim and maybe pick up an addon or two (I doubt the larger quiet group would spend $200 on P3D and $130 on a 747)

 

Also, is it really possible to even spend $1000 on addons for X-Plane?. If I count up the purchases I've made since I switched to XP10, it's probably about $400, and most of those purchases I don't use anymore :)

 

Just go and buy it, and treat it like you'd treat any other game (sorry for using that word). 

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Helpful.

 

Yes.  I am.   Because I rarely leave a sim in its DEFAULT state.    Before I dump 1000+ more on a new sim I want it to cater to MY needs.   If it doesn't then I'll wait or abandon it.    P3D is great.  Love it but I am always looking for the next great thing that isn't stuck in 2007 like FSX/P3D.   XP11 looks very impressive with what it can do, especially that night lighting engine but I wanted to know what it can do with the current add-on state.

the beauty of x-plane is that you can not spent that much money.  honestly 1000 $ will buy you pretty much every payware avaialble on the market.  99% of the people buy x-plane, cloud/weather engine (skymax or x-enviro) and payware planes to liking in your case that are not alot. if you are a nice than you spend some money donating to the great freeware authors.  so with sub 200$ you get pretty much the 99% setup everyone is using including one of the top tubeliners (733, 757, 767)

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I know you didn't want to hear it again, but if I had thousands invested in P3D, then I'd simply run both sims. Personally, I think total switches is silly!  I often see complaints of " I miss this & that, but I'm willing to do without, hoping that whatever, comes soon".   Just run both. Less heartache. 

 

In my case, a complete switch from FSX made perfect sense for a few reasons:

  1. I had hardly anything "invested" in FSX beyond the base software -- less than $50 in third-party add-ons -- so I didn't have any strong vested reason to stick with it.
  2. X-Plane 10 was cheaper than what it would have cost in third-party add-ons to bring FSX up to the level of X-Plane 10.
  3. I was in the process of moving away from Windows to Linux and in fact don't even have Windows installed any more, so X-Plane is literally the only game in town if I want a commercial flight simulator.

Of course there's always FlightGear for the budget minded...

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Well I snagged it.  It's only money right?   I'll fart around in it and poke it with a stick to see what I can make it do.   It definitely has some jarring problems out of the box I don't like.    That night life though.  <3.    I think I'll hold off dumping any many into addons just yet.    For now, to get to 30 FPS stable continuously.   Averaging about 22 FPS in dense areas.  Not happy with that.   It is Beta and not optizmized yet.   It is running smooth though, no stutters with high autogen on.

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