Adamski_NZ

Generic PTA testing scenario - suggestions please!

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The aim is to try and arrive at a test scenario for comparing PTA tweaks - which would have standardised textures for terrain, sky, clouds and water.

 

I'd like to try and create a downloadable archive that contains freely available textures for all these (so as not to fall foul of any copyright issues). However - my big problem is with terrain, as I'm totally committed to the full ORBX set (FTX Global etx. etc.), so even when flying outside an ORBX add-on area, I'm still in "FTX Global land". Disabling all of it to get back to default P3D is probably a no-no, as:

 

a] It will look terrible - and will hardly be a good test of PTA -  and

b] Hardly anyone flies in default P3D anyway.

c] I do a lot of work in ORBX and I'm simply not prepared to keep turning it off for PTA tweaking sessions.

 

So ... if there's no easy way around all this ... what would be the most suitable/popular FTX area to use? Suggestions please! My vote goes to NZSI or NZNI!

 

1) What suggestions do people have for a freely available **neutral** set of sky/could textures?

 

2) Any ideas if there are also (free) water textures out there we could use?

 

Of course, we'd have to contact the owners of any textures involved regarding permission to include their work in the archive (or we just include links).

 

Suggestions please!!!!

 

Adam.

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Iceland and Pacific North West 'demos' get my vote.

I could, of course, easily install Tasmania if need be.

 

And then, of course, there is FTX NZNI and NZSI which I have as well but, sadly, not free.

 

Gennadiy Mamendov's Sky textures would seem to be a strong candidate.

 

Not sure about clouds but the latest AS2016/ASCA might be in the running as many of us (not me, at present, as I have been preferring those provided by ENVTEX) are using this combo. Also, I think once you have a cloud set loaded loaded dynamically the sim can be run with the Fair Weather setting without AS16/ASCA running and P3D will, I think, use the last set installed. Sometimes I find I have to switch temporarily to Clear Skies and then back to Fair Weather to get decent cloud coverage.

 

Free alternative Water textures? Sorry, can't help there.

 

Mike

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Mike - I see you also have FTX NZ ... so I'll kick off with one from there. I see you also have REX/TD, which is also handy. Seeing as water might be a problem, I'll create one over land only.

 

Adam.

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Hi Adam,

 

Why not start with your last image posted in the other thread since that was what really got me going!

 

You asked me whether I thought the image appeared 'dull'. I wouldn'f go quite that far as I thought the lighting and colouration of ground textures were still impressive. However, when I saw your image with the bright, out of shadow, areas of snow I knew something was different.

 

Also, are we on the same page with P3D and graphic driver versions? Not sure how relevant these will be in the grand scheme of things but my previous great experiences using your Presets was with Prepar3D 3.4.9.18400 and driver version 376.33.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Thanks, Mike. I didn't see your last post before I got cracking with the one below. If you mean that snow shot, we could have a problem as we have clouds in that one - and I use FEX, which you don't have.

pta_generic_test_01_adam.jpg

I've created an archive with notes and a saved scenario: http://www.nzfsim.org/index.php?dsp=dload&fname=pta_generic_test_01.zip

Here are the notes for it:

PTA Preset TEST Scenario 01
====================================

This one is just a "greens" test.

Required:
1) ORBX NZNI.
2) Default P3D Piper J-3 Cub.
3) REX/TD : REX Sky textures: Dawn: 22 Chill | Day: 14 Fair | Dusk 03 Dust.

Optional:
1) FEX cloud theme: When logged into the FEX server, try finding Adam P3dv3 PTA 20-08, author Adam Banks.
S38° 44.78' E177° 12.25'
Alt: +6088
Hdg: 266.1

1) Front/cockpit view, but with VC hidden (SHFT-1).
2) Default zoom (100%).
3) Save the file in TIF format for an uncompressed original.
4) Resize to 1280px 72dpi and save as JPG at around 75/80% quality.

P3D 3.4.22 19868

nVidia 378.49

 

Adam.
 

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Hi Adam,

 

That's good, but before I get cracking on the content of your post above maybe I should say that I am starting to believe I may have jumped the gun on this one  :Shame On You:  Fired up P3d this afternoon (BTW, shouldn't you be in bed?!) and returned to my favourite 'Adam Preset Testing Area' which is North of ORBX Darrington (1S2), Washington State and could not believe what I am now seeing!!

 

dIMJBr3.jpg

 

kZlWmjx.jpg

 

I may have to eat humble pie. Still, let's proceed a bit further and I'll start by posting an image without making any changes to my current setup and see what transpires. Watch this space!

 

Regards,

Mike

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Hi Adam,

 

Hope you managed to get some useful shut eye!

 

Here are my PTA Preset TEST Scenario 01 results. Hopefully should all be self explanatory:

 

Vegetation -> set to Cast Shadow (I had it unchecked and the resultant image was nothing like yours :mad: )

 

 

PTA_Generic_Test_01(Clear Skies ENVTEX) 1280.jpg

2FUzwCP.jpg

 

 

PTA_Generic_Test_01(Clear Skies REX4TD) 1280.jpg

v2zuJ1v.jpg

 

 

PTA_Generic_Test_01(Fair Weather ENVTEX) 1280.jpg

UOBvIMU.jpg

 

 

PTA_Generic_Test_01(Fair Weather REX4TD-Skies and ENVTEX-Clouds) 1280.jpg

g9XIiWl.jpg

 

To my eyes, it would appear that the Sky textures, courtesy of REX4 TD, are producing images very close to what you are seeing. Water looks just a tad darker, however, and that may be because your Sky is slightly lighter in colour and is affecting the appearance of the whole scene.

 

Link to full archive which includes the original size TIFF images for closer examination:

https://personal.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d6f628b61616fafb49b

 

Regards,

Mike

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Sorry to be off topic but, Cruachan, I couldn't resist taking off from 1S2 in a beechcraft and following North thru the widest canyons following a large body of water thru the mountains, thru off and on snow showers. After about 40 minutes of wondering what I had gotten myself into, I broke out of snowy canyons into a wonderful expansive valley. CYHE was a well kept grass runway and looked like a glider club kept it up, also an immaculate large Golf Club area.

 

I started on towards CYCW, and ran into a large area of fog (I had thought to turn on pitot and carb heat) Seems I need to put this thing in the shop. Carb heat couldn't keep up, had to land in a large field where luckily there was nothing but large power lines. I had to shut down and sit around waiting for the thing to thaw out.

 

Finally got to take off and continued on to CYCW. This whole area doesn't look like P3D generic, must be an orbyx easter egg. A very nice place to fly around in, about 1 mile out from CYCW it happened again, loss of power. Looked like I was doing a good job of possibly making the runway when all of a sudden full power came up.

 

Again I apologize for off topic, but this trip may stick with me a while.... and Adams 20-10 preset was part of it.

Thanks for the idea of the trip.

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Wow, Mike - that's a cracker of a shot!!! I'll see what it looks like in mine! What time of day was it?

 

Adam.

 

P.S. I never sleep :P

 

EDIT: Just saw your pics, Mike - our first set of comparisons - well done! Your Pic #2 (with REX sky) does indeed look very like mine. The ENVTEX ones are significantly darker - but that just illustrates how even a subtle change of sky colouring can change the lighting of the whole scene. The setup is for 4pm (so we can get some decent terrain relief) but it's already getting dark by P3D standards, which appears to shift the onset of darkness forward by around 3 hours!!!

 

@Jim does the Beechcraft normally freeze up so quickly at 8500ft in winter?

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Very humid atmosphere (heavy fog) and a notch below freezing temps? I think I have frozen the DHC6 twotter a little easier. 

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Wow, Mike - that's a cracker of a shot!!! I'll see what it looks like in mine! What time of day was it?

 

Hi Adam,

 

Thank you kind sir! Think maybe I've been over fussing? LOL!

 

Season: Fall

Time of Day: 3.30pm

 

Looks even better now, I think, with the REX4 TD Sky Texture selection (Dawn: 22 Chill | Day: 14 Fair | Dusk 03 Dust) :good:

Really, I should be prepared to experiment more than I do.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Hi Adam,

 

I'm really, really hooked on your latest 20_10 Preset and, as I type this, you will find me tucking into a very large helping of humble pie :im Not Worthy:

 

Just had to post these latest image captures. Everything is as before apart from the change in Sky textures listed in previous post #12.

 

The penultimate image was taken near CYCW (enjoyed reading your account, Jim) and the last while returning to Darrington Municipal in the evening as the sun was setting.

 

Dawn

3QeEWsw.jpg

c4AfkwZ.jpg

 

Qn5tpn1.jpg

 

ypjqi64.jpg

S6uEmaX.jpg

Cz1wXev.jpg

 

Sunset
EskRlod.jpg

 

Not sure if you would like to continue with some further comparison tests, Adam, but I'm willing if you are :smile:

 

Wondering whether my Day skies should be a touch lighter? Odd as they did appear lighter in Post #8. Season: Fall. I note your image was taken in the Summer so perhaps that has something to do with it. Edit: Checked by changing seasons using your image and sky colour remains unchanged.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Hi Adam,

Seeing definite differences this time around. Clear Skies: REX4 TD (Dawn: 22 Chill | Day: 14 Fair | Dusk 03 Dust)

Adam's Image Reprised
8q3rQIz.jpg

My Image
bTIbEcJ.jpg

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________


pta_generic_test_02 (Summer, 7.00am)

Adam's Image
Bi4HNpj.jpg

My Image
zDKsprj.jpg

My images seem to be displaying less brightness, warmth and vitality as compared to yours. Funny thing is if I had not seen your images for comparison it's likely that I would have considered mine as being okay. I wonder what could be causing this to happen?


Supplemental Image: Same situation, volte-face to show Water(Sea)
lLsUZoQ.jpg

Regards,
Mike

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Hmmm ... thanks, Mike. Those "Scenario 2" Nelson shots are very interesting. It justifies going to all this effort, I think - as there are definite differences. I've long suspected my presets appear to be a tiny bit dull on other peoples' systems - and this appears to confirm it.

 

All we have to do now is work out why!!!

 

If we get more test submissions from other people, we may be able to work out who the "odd man out" is. I suspect it might be me :nea:

 

Adam.

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Adam, your sky in 'Adam's Image' appears to have a touch more blue than in 'My Image' and yet, apparently, we are using the same REX4 TD Dawn/Day/Dusk Sky selection. Could that be a clue? I am using your recommended HDR settings for 20_10 (Brightness: 0.70, Bloom: 0.20, Saturation: 0.85).

 

Regards,

Mike

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Hi Adam,

I considered trying Gennadiy's 'Clear' set of Sky Textures, but that would necessarily entail having to use his specific PTA Preset and recommended HDR settings, the latter being very different: Brightness - 1.15, Bloom - 0.25, Saturation - 1.45

So, for the moment, I decided against as I thought that this would not be particularly helpful.

I have a sneaky suspicion that, in the end, this may come down to the calibration settings of our respective monitors. I'm hoping not as we are told that ASUS ROG Monitors are set up optimally before RTM and, to date, that has certainly been my impression as I have not had to make any adjustments.

On the other hand, could it be the default desktop colour settings in the NVIDIA Control Panel?
Adjust Image Settings: Use the advanced 3D image settings
Adjust desktop colour settings:
25ALyM1.jpg

Monitor ICC Profile in use:
1dxKOoO.jpg

Regards,
Mike

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Mike - I think the skies look different because the whole image has a different cast to it (yours or mine).

 

I've experimented with different monitor settings before - and taken P3D shots with two obvious/extreme settings. The images look different when viewed on that PC, but when viewed on another PC, they're identical. ie. It's only the output to that one monitor that's different - not the saved image. This was my original reason for trying PTA: to try and brighten up my P3D overall.

 

Adam.

 

EDIT: OK ... I have a theory. I'm going to re-run my mointor settings test. When I originally tried it, I wasn't using Reshade or PTA - ie. my P3D images were entirely without post-processing. However - my PTA presets have a couple of post-processing tweaks (contrast and vibrance) ... which is suspiciously close to the differences we're seeing. I always thought that PTA's post-processing tweaks simply "mimicked" the effect, but weren't true post-processing effects. As far as I remember, different moinitor settings *do* affect post-processing.

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Well ... I set up some extreme post-processing values in PTA, then took a whole raft of screenshots with different monitor settings and profiles. All my saved screenshots were *identical*. Mind you, these were all saved with the traditional "V" key - which stores a raw image. I dare say that if you used any other form of screengrab, then the colour changes would be visible.

 

Adam.

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Hi Adam,

 

This is certainly proving to be a challenging exercise for you. I too use the 'V' key to capture screenshots in P3D and these are, for the purpose of this investigation, being saved as TIFF files which, as you said, is a RAW or LOSSLESS format. So, that's not the explanation for the differences seen in our images. BTW, I used 'Paint' to resize (2560 -> 1280 x720 pixels) and save the images as JPEGs.

 

As yet we do not know which image is the more accurate representation of what we should be seeing as a result of using your PTA 20_10 Preset. My money is on your images as these are how I would like mine to appear. This thread has demonstrated that on occasions potentially this can come fairly close, but our images are never actually identical. Perhaps there are just too many variables involved making this forever a tantalising rather an an actual objective.

______________________________________________________________________

 

NOTAM

 

We need more data. Hopefully a few of you reading this thread might now feel persuaded to submit your own images of Adam's TEST Scenario 01 and 02 situations. There has been much discussion and praise about the various Presets in use right now, yet we cannot be sure how closely our individual results, as seen on our respective monitors, match that witnessed by our chosen Preset's creator, in this case Adam.

______________________________________________________________________

 

Adam, I know I have expressed my reluctance, but do you think it would be worthwhile me recalibrating my monitor? Do you think it might make a difference? I have an X-Rite ColorMunki Photo which, I'm ashamed to say, has lain idle for several years. If you think it might help clarify this situation I am prepared to put my reservations aside, blow the dust off the box and put it to 'good' use once again. All in a good cause and all that 😇

 

Meantime, let's hope others will feel inclined to join the party. After all, we can only benefit from this process.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Mike - I don't think calibrating your monitor would help - as P3D cpatures the *raw* image. If anyone needs their monitor calibrating, it should be me (ie. whoever's developing the preset) as it really needs to be as true and accurate as possible to start with.

 

My other thought is that it may be video card dependent (who knows - maybe even individual driver dependent). I remember in FS9 days, thinking that all ATI cards looked slightly blue-er (and sharper) than their nVidia counterparts - which seemed a little "muddy" by comparison (sound familiar?). I've owned a few ATI cards over the years, but always found their drivers/and support appalling. However - it does show, I think, that different card brands have different colour characteristics.

 

My current nVidia driver is 378.49 - what's yours?

 

Adam.

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I don't think calibrating your monitor would help - as P3D cpatures the *raw* image. If anyone needs their monitor calibrating, it should be me (ie. whoever's developing the preset) as it really needs to be as true and accurate as possible to start with.

 

Hi Adam,

 

I understand what you are saying and I'm pretty sure you are correct. However, my curiousity has been piqued and, like the irresistible force, I feel I have no choice but to follow this one through..LOL! No harm in trying and, you never know, there might be a surprise waiting at the end.

 

I'm using the same driver - see signature.

 

Regards,

Mike

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I'll retake that test shot. I updated my drivers not that long ago (typically, I can't remember when, but I suppose it's not too difficult to find out). There's an outside chance that the pic was taken with the previous driver.

 

If you ever want to sell your "FunkyMunki" ... :wink:

 

Adam.

 

EDIT: It's also possible that your "Paint" program is changing the palette slightly. My scenario archive has the full .tif file in it - how does it compare with your uncompressed one?

I just checked my 378.49 install date: 5 days before taking the test shot.

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before you guys get too much farther, can you double check your time/day for your comparison Nelson shots? look at the tree shadows at the north end of the field. they are different between your shots.

 

and also - are you running the same resolutions?

 

and finally - with dynamic lighting, how will you ever know that you are both allowing the same amount of time for brightness and contrast and saturation to adjust? or do you both run HDR off?

 

Im enjoying reading your thread but have little useful input for you. sorry. but do recheck your time/day/date. theres something not right there.

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