Pushback: "Turn tail LEFT/RIGHT"

[19AB67 16]

Hi folks, 

 

(haven't found this in the forum yet...)

 

the pushback "FMS" page provides the option TURN TAIL LEFT or RIGHT. 

 

Not sure on how to understand a given choice, e.g. RIGHT,

but doing so today at EHAM gate E22, the aircraft's nose pointed towards the terminals, not away to RWYs 09/27 and 18L/36R. 

 

Is it meant as request towards the truck driver? 

Or the pilots 'right' or 'left'? 

 

Obviously the latter, but I misunderstood it. 

[JoeDiamond 67]

That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

[Captain Kevin 586]

Is it meant as request towards the truck driver? 

Or the pilots 'right' or 'left'? 

This threw me off as WEL, but it appears to be the latter. When the ground crew communications is taking place, you'll hear "tail to our left/right." I wish they'd point this out in the manual as it isn't obvious.

 

That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

Probably a little difficult to do in the simulator, especially in this case when you consider you control the turning angle as WEL.

[kevinh 409]

 

 

I wish they'd point this out in the manual as it isn't obvious.

Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

[19AB67 16]

 

 

Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

 

I am in the air and not sure, 

but I think in the 777 it is the other way round. 

[Captain Kevin 586]

Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

When you've been using the FS9 version of the PMDG Boeing 747-400 for the last six years and it does it that way, it will throw you off.

[kevinh 409]

I am in the air and not sure, 

but I think in the 777 it is the other way round. 

True, but it says NOSE LEFT/RIGHT on the 777 CDU screen, so it's equally clear.

 

When you've been using the FS9 version of the PMDG Boeing 747-400 for the last six years and it does it that way, it will throw you off.

A lot of things have changed between the old FS9 747 and this one.

[19AB67 16]

New is the wording turn TAIL... 

[Captain Kevin 586]

A lot of things have changed between the old FS9 747 and this one.

I'm aware of that. My point being if you're used to one doing it one way, this is something that would throw you off until you get used to it. Unlike the 777, the FS9 747 does not specifically say nose. You'd have to look in the manual to figure that one out, and I certainly don't remember what I read six years ago.

[19AB67 16]

 

 

True, but it says NOSE LEFT/RIGHT on the 777 CDU screen, so it's equally clear.

 

I think I was confused by the word 'turn' as an imperative to the tug driver. 

Does the 777 mention 'turn'?

[vololiberista 205]

That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

[kevinh 409]

I'm aware of that. My point being if you're used to one doing it one way, this is something that would throw you off until you get used to it. Unlike the 777, the FS9 747 does not specifically say nose. You'd have to look in the manual to figure that one out, and I certainly don't remember what I read six years ago.

The 747X specifically says nose. For most people that's the last version.

 

I think I was confused by the word 'turn' as an imperative to the tug driver. 

Does the 777 mention 'turn'?

Yes, the 777 says TURN NOSE LEFT/RIGHT. If PMDG had intended the pushback controls to be relative to the tug driver that certainly would be confusing.

[Captain Kevin 586]

Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

Actually, having listened to some JFK ground clips on YouTube, I've heard it go both ways.

 

The 747X specifically says nose. For most people that's the last version.

Perhaps so, but I never had it, so I wouldn't have any way of knowing that. Matter of fact, I used FSX from 2007 up until 2009 before I went over to FS9 because of performance issues (computer at the time wasn't powerful enough to run it without sacrificing quality), and I've been using FS9 from 2009 up until the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 got released.

 

Either way, main point being it may be obvious to you despite the manual not pointing out, but not everyone like myself is as smart as you are.

[mwilk 1,104]

Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

Not necessarily. Ramp control at DFW would tell the crew tail south or tail west. It was always what direction they wanted the tail pointed.

[kevinh 409]

Actually, having listened to some JFK ground clips on YouTube, I've heard it go both ways.

 

Perhaps so, but I never had it, so I wouldn't have any way of knowing that. Matter of fact, I used FSX from 2007 up until 2009 before I went over to FS9 because of performance issues (computer at the time wasn't powerful enough to run it without sacrificing quality), and I've been using FS9 from 2009 up until the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 got released.

 

Either way, main point being it may be obvious to you despite the manual not pointing out, but not everyone like myself is as smart as you are.

It's nothing to do with me being "smart". The CDU pushback interface says TURN TAIL LEFT (or RIGHT if that's what you select). That doesn't need explaining, surely? Also, the voice command from the captain to the tug is "they want the tail to our left". Not the tug driver's left. Still confused by that?

 

If you look at the manual you will see it is out of step with the sim. It shows TURN NOSE RIGHT, as per the 777 pushback controls. This must have changed late in the day and the manual was not revised. That does confuse things, but the issue (whether nose or tail) is the turn direction relative to what. That, surely, can only mean relative to the aircraft. Why would PMDG make it unduly complicated by making it relative to the tug driver?