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Pushback: "Turn tail LEFT/RIGHT"

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Hi folks, 

 

(haven't found this in the forum yet...)

 

the pushback "FMS" page provides the option TURN TAIL LEFT or RIGHT. 

 

Not sure on how to understand a given choice, e.g. RIGHT,

but doing so today at EHAM gate E22, the aircraft's nose pointed towards the terminals, not away to RWYs 09/27 and 18L/36R. 

 

Is it meant as request towards the truck driver? 

Or the pilots 'right' or 'left'? 

 

Obviously the latter, but I misunderstood it. 

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That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

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Is it meant as request towards the truck driver? 

Or the pilots 'right' or 'left'? 

This threw me off as WEL, but it appears to be the latter. When the ground crew communications is taking place, you'll hear "tail to our left/right." I wish they'd point this out in the manual as it isn't obvious.

 

That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

Probably a little difficult to do in the simulator, especially in this case when you consider you control the turning angle as WEL.

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I wish they'd point this out in the manual as it isn't obvious.

Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

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Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

 

I am in the air and not sure, 

but I think in the 777 it is the other way round. 

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Seems obvious to me. It's relative to you (and the aircraft). There isn't actually a tug driver there, so why make left/right relative to a virtual tug driver and confuse the real sim user?

When you've been using the FS9 version of the PMDG Boeing 747-400 for the last six years and it does it that way, it will throw you off.

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I am in the air and not sure, 

but I think in the 777 it is the other way round. 

True, but it says NOSE LEFT/RIGHT on the 777 CDU screen, so it's equally clear.

 

When you've been using the FS9 version of the PMDG Boeing 747-400 for the last six years and it does it that way, it will throw you off.

A lot of things have changed between the old FS9 747 and this one.

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A lot of things have changed between the old FS9 747 and this one.

I'm aware of that. My point being if you're used to one doing it one way, this is something that would throw you off until you get used to it. Unlike the 777, the FS9 747 does not specifically say nose. You'd have to look in the manual to figure that one out, and I certainly don't remember what I read six years ago.

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True, but it says NOSE LEFT/RIGHT on the 777 CDU screen, so it's equally clear.

 

I think I was confused by the word 'turn' as an imperative to the tug driver. 

Does the 777 mention 'turn'?

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That's why you normally say tail north, south, east or west in the real world.  Makes sure everyone is on the same page.

Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

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I'm aware of that. My point being if you're used to one doing it one way, this is something that would throw you off until you get used to it. Unlike the 777, the FS9 747 does not specifically say nose. You'd have to look in the manual to figure that one out, and I certainly don't remember what I read six years ago.

The 747X specifically says nose. For most people that's the last version.

 

I think I was confused by the word 'turn' as an imperative to the tug driver. 

Does the 777 mention 'turn'?

Yes, the 777 says TURN NOSE LEFT/RIGHT. If PMDG had intended the pushback controls to be relative to the tug driver that certainly would be confusing.

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Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

Actually, having listened to some JFK ground clips on YouTube, I've heard it go both ways.

 

The 747X specifically says nose. For most people that's the last version.

Perhaps so, but I never had it, so I wouldn't have any way of knowing that. Matter of fact, I used FSX from 2007 up until 2009 before I went over to FS9 because of performance issues (computer at the time wasn't powerful enough to run it without sacrificing quality), and I've been using FS9 from 2009 up until the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 got released.

 

Either way, main point being it may be obvious to you despite the manual not pointing out, but not everyone like myself is as smart as you are.

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Atc say "Face/Facing North" etc not tail.

Not necessarily. Ramp control at DFW would tell the crew tail south or tail west. It was always what direction they wanted the tail pointed.

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Actually, having listened to some JFK ground clips on YouTube, I've heard it go both ways.

 

Perhaps so, but I never had it, so I wouldn't have any way of knowing that. Matter of fact, I used FSX from 2007 up until 2009 before I went over to FS9 because of performance issues (computer at the time wasn't powerful enough to run it without sacrificing quality), and I've been using FS9 from 2009 up until the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 got released.

 

Either way, main point being it may be obvious to you despite the manual not pointing out, but not everyone like myself is as smart as you are.

It's nothing to do with me being "smart". The CDU pushback interface says TURN TAIL LEFT (or RIGHT if that's what you select). That doesn't need explaining, surely? Also, the voice command from the captain to the tug is "they want the tail to our left". Not the tug driver's left. Still confused by that?

 

If you look at the manual you will see it is out of step with the sim. It shows TURN NOSE RIGHT, as per the 777 pushback controls. This must have changed late in the day and the manual was not revised. That does confuse things, but the issue (whether nose or tail) is the turn direction relative to what. That, surely, can only mean relative to the aircraft. Why would PMDG make it unduly complicated by making it relative to the tug driver?

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maybe  users  should  actually  read   whats  is  on the cdu  and  not  actually  think it  is :wink:

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It's nothing to do with me being "smart". The CDU pushback interface says TURN TAIL LEFT (or RIGHT if that's what you select). That doesn't need explaining, surely? Also, the voice command from the captain to the tug is "they want the tail to our left". Not the tug driver's left. Still confused by that?

I already figured it out after the first time when I went the opposite direction of where I wanted to do, as Andreas did. The problem in this case is when I'm getting ready to push back, I go to external view and I'm looking at the nose of the plane when trying to figure out which way I should be going and how much distance I need to push back before commencing the turn. Very hard to do that when you're looking from the back of the plane. As for the voice command, I heard that and that was what got me wondering if I was even going to be going the right way or not. Of course, you don't hear the voice command until after you've already started the pushback sequence, so that doesn't do any good.

 

If you look at the manual you will see it is out of step with the sim. It shows TURN NOSE RIGHT, as per the 777 pushback controls. This must have changed late in the day and the manual was not revised. That does confuse things, but the issue (whether nose or tail) is the turn direction relative to what. That, surely, can only mean relative to the aircraft. Why would PMDG make it unduly complicated by making it relative to the tug driver?

To you, it might have been obvious. To me, who was used to doing it in a different manner in FS9, not necessarily so obvious.

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This  is  turning  out  more  difficult  than  it  really  is, not  rocket  science  here :Tounge:

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This  is  turning  out  more  difficult  than  it  really  is, not  rocket  science  here :Tounge:

Pretty much already figured it out after screwing it up the first time.

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Hello PMDG team, Thanks for the new 747-400! It is a fantastic aircraft, especially with lots of details and extremely realistic! As can not be expected from you, a brilliant work and actually much too cheap. THANK YOU! :-)

 

Greeting from Oskar of Germany

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If you have problems use GSX then its

 

Nose Right/Tail Left 

or

Nose Left/Tail Right

 

If you don't understand that, then best to give up and just use straight back but again that's the plane NOT the tug. :smile: :wink:

 

Hope this can helps clear it up!!!

 

left.jpg

Just to be clear the "tail" is of a plane because there talking about the plane nothing else. Just like the term "Pushback" again its the plane not the tug.

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Hello PMDG team, Thanks for the new 747-400! It is a fantastic aircraft, especially with lots of details and extremely realistic! As can not be expected from you, a brilliant work and actually much too cheap. THANK YOU! :-)

 

Greeting from Oskar of Germany

Very on topic. :rolleyes:

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If you have problems use GSX then its

 

Nose Right/Tail Left 

or

Nose Left/Tail Right

Incidentally, when I was pushing back at O'Hare, the option I was given was "Push on taxiway A, face south" or "Push on taxiway A, face north" or some variant thereof.

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I must admit, I screwed up the first pushback due to this change! Am not amused, PMDG... Am.Not.Amused! haha

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Not necessarily. Ramp control at DFW would tell the crew tail south or tail west. It was always what direction they wanted the tail pointed.

There are large differences between N America and the rest of the Wold ICAO and this is one of them.

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